Excell parking..bw legal threat of court proceedings

Redx

well true, but I didnt want to complicate the muddy waters just because they have moved most of it to an online system from a paper based system

the small claims court has been in existence in england and wales since 1973 , which some of it has moved ONLINE in the meantime, leaving Salford to handle the remaining paper claims

so my point was that this small claims system has been around since 1973 , its not just for parking tickets and the issues being raised in this thread and others are about the court system, not parking per se

one is a consequence of the other, but the court claim system was not set up purely for parking charges , its just a small cog in a large legal machine

the OP should be researching the legal side of this , not just catching up with errors made over the original pcn,s issued when Excel were BPA members years ago and certainly should not tell fibs aboutr what the advice was on here 4 years ago

I helped my lad beat Excel at popla some 5.5 years ago and the advice then was appeal once then go to popla, it was NOT ignore


and despite what that NEWBIES thread say and the memorandum of understanding agreed by the DVLA , the BPA and the IPC, I cannot see this OP or a driver being given popla codes after all this time


reading their last post it appears they are clutching at straws , and soggy ones at that

Terry78

Redx wrote: »

I doubt that EXCEL would give the driver a popla code or codes after all this time , these should have been appealed 4 years ago like this forum has always recommended since march 2013 (which predates these tickets)

however, EXCEL were BPA members back then as they didnt join the IPC until 2015
Excel Parking Services Limited

Accreditation Start Date: 01/01/2015

the KEEPER can tell them the drivers details (if known) and EXCEL should, repeat "should" harass the driver as the driver cannot hide behind POFA2012. if they continued to pursue a keeper after the keeper named the driver, this would be a part of any defence

the PPC does not have to prove delivery, they only need proof of postage or to convince a judge the letters were sent to the correct name and address, by post , the letters are "deemed to be delivered" 2 days later

ie:- in legal parlance, they send them out by post and are legally determined to have been delivered 2 days later. their WS can easily state this happened and a judge will likely believe them

there is no such thing as "recorded delivery" anyway, its called SIGNED FOR and is marketed as such https://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/signed-for-1st-class/

a letter of claim can be ignored, it will likely be followed by an MCOL in the post, which should NOT be ignored if you dont want a default CCJ in your name

yes you must defend if that heppens, or a default judgment will be issued, no hearing date would happen

I think you need to bone up on the MCOL system, its been around since 1973 after all


as for the present, of this is an LBC you are REBUTTING it , not defending it (and certainly not appealing)

Ok so to be clear the information taken from the newbie section on resetting the popla clock is not correct then? Just checking as it seems most people are diverted to this section and almost to be treated as the bible on what to do, yet it doesnt seem to be the case??
I dont speak the jargon or profess to be a law expert of any kind here, i am just your average joe public desperate for some help in laymens terms.

Am i best to ignore this LOC and then if it moves to a MCOL i can at that point defend and state i was not the driver? And to keep things really simple if i say i wasnt the driver and cant remember who may have been after 4 years, is the onus on excell to prove who was the driver with evidence? I.e a picture of me entering and exiting the vehicle and driving in and out of the car park, as without this how can i be found guilty and expected to pay

KeithP

The first line of that very old thread you have been reading starts...

Note this thread is primarily aimed at letters received from ParkingEye...

Is that thread still linked from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?

Redx

yes it is correct (providing that the keeper and driver are not one and the same person), BUT what you are not appreciating is that EXCEL are IPC members since 2015 and so getting popla codes may prove difficult for the driver (whereas for PE cases , PE are still BPA members , it wasnt even the same POPLA back then either)

we know you dont understand it, but some of your "IT WASNT ME GUV AND IN ANY CASE THE LETTERS NEVER ARRIVED" replies are not helping you at all, you are muddying the already muddy waters

YES THE PERSON NAMED ON THE PAPERWORK CAN NAME THE DRIVER AND GIVE THEIR ADDRESS , this has always been the case since the very first NTK arrived (as it is with speeding penalties etc too)

this should result in the current named person no longer being involved and the driver being involved , but BW LEGAL may just issue an MCOL in the keepers name anyway, for all the pcn,s , just to muddy the waters even further

they dont play fair, they will play as dirty as they can , so learn the rules of the game and the legal side, because that is your job to do

you must know about small claims court or similar as it features on tv daily, like cant pay & the sheriffs are coming & judge rinder etc (which are usually nothing to do with private parking charges but still the same legal framework for the most part) - you havent been living in a cave all this time

I am no law expert either, but I have learned a lot since coming here to fight excel 5.5 years ago and my case predates yours , so I know what was being said here at that time and still have all the popla docs and evidence pack etc to prove it (we won at popla for a case on Ashton Retail Park)

if you ignore the LBC it may go against you in court , because a judge may expect you to have followed all the pre-court steps to avoid the court case , which are that you did not go to popla , you ignored all paperwork and only left them with the court option - this could mean you start on the back foot from the off)

so you need to decide if the driver is being named and shamed asap, or not , then the driver will have to face all of this and deal with any issues and consequences if any "clock is reset"

once the court claim is issued to the keeper , its too late to name the driver

it isnt about proving that YOU did this , if they followed POFA2012 then as keeper you are liable anyway, due to that particular law

yes they MUST prove their case, but only to 51% probability if there are any issues or doubts

if they failed POFA2012 and you were not , repeat NOT the driver, then say so in your defence (but do not lie)

any pictures they have are of vehicles, not people, they monitor vehicles and use ANPR to capture the VRM on the front and back

this isnt about the person, its about the vehicle breaking their rules and them holding a person (driver preferably, or keeper otherwise) for being responsible or liable for their inflated charge. we have seen and dismissed all those futile arguments by defendants or apellants many times before

if a judge decides that you are liable, they will issue a judgment and you will pay , guilty or not guilty , like happened to BARRY BEAVIS 2 years ago (google it) - otherwise you will get a CCJ and possible enforcement

(just dont try using silly arguments like the post didnt arrive or any other not so smart get outs you think you may have)

if you win this , its on a legal technicality , like happens when you employ NICK mr loophole FREEMAN , like BECKS did

OR , you dump it on the DRIVER by naming them with a serviceable address for papers (if its a different person of course, otherwise its a waste of time)

Terry78

Redx wrote: »

yes it is correct, BUT what you are not appreciating is that EXCEL are IPC members since 2015 and so getting popla codes may prove difficult for the driver (whereas for PE cases , PE are still BPA members , it wasnt even the same POPLA back then either)

we know you dont understand it, but some of your "IT WASNT ME GUV AND IN ANY CASE THE LETTERS NEVER ARRIVED" replies are not helping you at all, you are muddying the already muddy waters

YES THE PERSON NAMED ON THE PAPERWORK CAN NAME THE DRIVER AND GIVE THEIR ADDRESS , this has always been the case since the very first NTK arrived (as it is with speeding penalties etc too)

this should result in the current named person no longer being involved and the driver being involved , but BW LEGAL may just issue an MCOL in the keepers name anyway, for all the pcn,s , just to muddy the waters even further

they dont play fair, they will play as dirty as they can , so learn the rules of the game and the legal side, because that is your job to do

you must know about small claims court or similar as it features on tv daily, like cant pay & the sheriffs are coming & judge rinder etc (which are usually nothing to do with private parking charges but still the same legal framework for the most part) - you havent been living in a cave all this time

I am no law expert either, but I have learned a lot since coming here to fight excel 5.5 years ago and my case predates yours , so I know what was being said here at that time and still have all the popla docs and evidence pack etc to prove it (we won at popla for a case on Ashton Retail Park)

if you ignore the LBC it may go against you in court , because a judge may expect you to have followed all the pre-court steps to avoid the court case , which are that you did not go to popla , you ignored all paperwork and only left them with the court option - this could mean you start on the back foot from the off)

so you need to decide if the driver is being named and shamed asap, or not , then the driver will have to face all of this and deal with any issues and consequences if any "clock is reset"

once the court claim is issued to the keeper , its too late to name the driver

it isnt about proving that YOU did this , if they followed POFA2012 then as keeper you are liable anyway, due to that particular law

yes they MUST prove their case, but only to 51% probability if there are any issues or doubts

if they failed POFA2012 and you were not , repeat NOT the driver, then say so in your defence (but do not lie)

any pictures they have are of vehicles, not people, they monitor vehicles and use ANPR to capture the VRM on the front and back

this isnt about the person, its about the vehicle breaking their rules and them holding a person (driver preferably, or keeper otherwise) for being responsible or liable for their inflated charge. we have seen and dismissed all those futile arguments by defendants or apellants many times before

if a judge decides that you are liable, they will issue a judgment and you will pay , guilty or not guilty , like happened to BARRY BEAVIS 2 years ago (google it) - otherwise you will get a CCJ and possible enforcement

(just dont try using silly arguments like the post didnt arrive or any other not so smart get outs you think you may have)

if you win this , its on a legal technicality , like happens when you employ NICK mr loophole FREEMAN , like BECKS did


OR , you dump it on the DRIVER by naming them with a serviceable address for papers

Ok, how do i find out if they followed POFA 2012?... am i right in thinking if i upload the paperwork they have sent that you may be able to look for and help me identify the technicalities that would help me win this thing in terms of things they have or have not included in this paperwork, besides the simple fact i was not the driver and dont know who is. Or am i still not getting it here, sorry for my ignorance im just sat here reading through posts and threads to a subject matter that is completly alien to me. I do appreciate all the comments and feedback and sorry if i am not quiet keeping up

Terry78

Also do i request all paperwork they have issued to me to date prior to bw legal letter i received 2 days ago?

Redx

yes, do an SAR on EXCEL themselves and get copies of all paperwork, pictures , signs , contracts , everything they have in your name (see the GDPR 2018 FIGHTBACK thread by coupon_mad for advice on this)

compare the NTK to POFA2012 and the dates as well, to see if they complied with the wording and timescales , which they probably havent as they didnt follow POFA2012 back then and havent until recently) - the newbies thread has advice on comparing any NTK against POFA , but assume they failed as they always did back then anyway

perhaps read the LAMILAD court case threads where he won several times against them because he wasnt a driver either (he was the keeper I believe, but not the driver)

if they failed POFA2012 and you can swear on oath that you were not the driver and the driver is unknown to you, then their case is likely to fail

treat the letters from BW LEGAL as an LBC and send them a rebuttal, just in case

now that you are listening and starting to take in what you are being told, you will gain understanding , but you cannot expect to bury your head in the sand or dream up falsehoods, just stick to the facts and all will come clear, like it did for LAMILAD and for me, which takes time

what you should have done at the time is to send in keeper appeals for each and every pcn and then popla appeals to the old London Councils who did popla back then (like me and my lad did) , using the POFA2012 and not the driver arguments etc

Terry78

Redx wrote: »

yes, do an SAR on EXCEL themselves and get copies of all paperwork, pictures , signs , contracts , everything they have in your name (see the GDPR 2018 FIGHTBACK thread by coupon_mad for advice on this)

compare the NTK to POFA2012 and the dates as well, to see if they complied with the wording and timescales , which they probably havent as they didnt follow POFA2012 back then and havent until recently) - the newbies thread has advice on comparing any NTK against POFA , but assume they failed as they always did back then anyway

perhaps read the LAMILAD court case threads where he won several times against them because he wasnt a driver either (he was the keeper I believe, but not the driver)

if they failed POFA2012 and you can swear on oath that you were not the driver and the driver is unknown to you, then their case is likely to fail

treat the letters from BW LEGAL as an LBC and send them a rebuttal, just in case

now that you are listening and starting to take in what you are being told, you will gain understanding , but you cannot expect to bury your head in the sand or dream up falsehoods, just stick to the facts and all will come clear, like it did for LAMILAD and for me, which takes time

what you should have done at the time is to send in keeper appeals for each and every pcn and then popla appeals to the old London Councils who did popla back then (like me and my lad did) , using the POFA2012 and not the driver arguments etc

Ok thank you, all the above looks like im staring at the screen of the matrix at the moment and dont understand a lot of the stuff you have said... but i will do my best to make sense of it and learn a little more over the coming days.. i will upload the bw letter on monday at some point and if you and any other reading could please stick with me and input i am eternally grateful in advance.
P.s congratulations on winning your case, i hope i get the same result

Snakes_Belly

The PCC's are probably ramping up the action and going through all the old cases to screw as much money as they can out of the motorist before any changes bought about by the PMB.

My LBC and others recently have been directly from Excel's legal department. Perhaps there are so many robo-claims being pushed through that they had to start using BW Legal again. Courts will be getting really fed up at being used as a means of debt collection.

The_Deep

Sooner or later a judge will give a PPC a really bloody nose, and I do not mean a fine the equivalent of a week's cruise on the Saga Rose.