Royal Mail £8 Internal Post Handling Fee scam?

custardy

jeebo wrote: »

Hi All,

long time reader of the MSE, and a new reader to this thread. So far I am finding it a rather exhilarating, amusing, and yet frustrating read at the same time. Good to see the likes of Custardy have continued to post on this thread.... Though I must admit, I am only up to page 13 so far, and if I dont get this idea out there now, I will forget it (guaranteed!)

I was brought here on the shock of the idea I may have to pay this crazy £8 as I have bought something from the land where almost everything is made (China) and appreciated VAT would be due, then in the small print I found the £8 charge of Royal Mail and it got me thinking...
and obviously appreciating VAT was due,arranged a customs clearance solution beforehand?
Now its nice to see RM haven't hiked up the price in the time this thread has been running, but there is one point raised by those staff such as Custardy who work (or worked, I wouldn't be surprised if in the last 17 pages you have retired through stress!) that keeps coming back about the cost of all this delivery and man hours etc that does frustrate me a tad... Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong at any point here....
No stress for me.

A friend goes to china, sends me a postcard back... He pays the postal service at the other side 20p or whatever the fee is, and the postcard is passed onto the aircraft, lands on royal mails door, who then in essence deliver the postcard for free?
Who is delivering the international mail sent from the UK RM is paid for? This is what postal agreements cover
If said friend was to deliver a small packet, which does not see the friends at customs and HMRC, said packet would still be delivered in essence for free by Royal Mail?

postal agreements

Now, whilst I dont expect RM to work for free at all times, I think there should be an element of balance here...

For example, I think a point that was regularly made and repeatedly argued previously was the monopoly of the situation with RM and in essence people being "bullied" into this purchase. I must admit I can understand their point of view, but I do have curiosity on my side to an idea such as this, and perhaps the likes of Custardy could advise how feasible these things really would be?

Monopoly when there is already an option with no RM fee?(its posted about a gazzilion times in this thread

The goods I recently ordered come to just shy of £10 in tax, which I am happy to pay. If the goods do not get caught in the crossfire, RM will deliver them to me for free, and RM are happy to do so it would appear, as they do so without charging me a handling fee...

As there is no increased workload whilst mail remains in the 'pipeline'
What I dont understand is, why in this instance when the mail is isolated from the line, that element is considered a business expense by RM to be recovered later (dont shoot me yet, the point is coming!)
Its considered so because it costs money! RM works in bulk and its network is set up as so. Price up the cost of moving a small packet via RM vs a man with a van outfit for comparison. They are both moving the same packet,so why the disparity in cost?

All business have expenses, and staff to employ, and whilst I can understand the points made by both parties of this argument, I think both parties make good points, but I revert to the idea my parcel is not caught up in HMRC and therefore would be delivered to me for free.
Its not free. Unless you/the sender didnt pay postage in the senders country?
Surely it would be best for RM to continue as they are, deliver the parcels to HMRC and at this point have NO ADDITIONAL TRACKING than those which are already provided. For example, I know my packet has its own tracking reference, which all parties can monitor, track and confirm. So at this point, it would be good for RM to just hand it over to HMRC and for HMRC to charge me the just shy of £10 VAT which is due. Perhaps stick a £1 admin fee there, because they then have to send me a "were holding your parcel at ransom" note.
So this £1 would cover the processing,IT/servers/staff etc to deal with administrating. I assume it would also cover the delivery from HMRC to you? Where would HMRC be storing these? Would RM simply deliver all international parcels to HMRC for them to sort out? Lot of value from that quid it seems.

I then should be able to log onto HMRC's website, and then offer to pay the £11 fee and should then have the option of how the parcel is then passed onto me. For example, if I wanted the RM's super duper GPS tracked service in realtime, then I pay the cost for that, however, if I just wanted to pay second class to have the thing delivered to me as and when (its already been a month, seriously another week is hardly going to bother me!) then I pay HMRC the cost of a second class packet stamp (and perhaps a surcharge of 20p for the fact they had to chuck it onto the van and dump it on HMRC's door).

so this quid also covers a postroom set up to administrate the postage methods etc.

That way, I get the parcel I ordered, for a price I am willing to pay, with little "additional" work from RM, the same effort being involved, the fee's being applied, and RM being paid for the remainder of the journey, but at a rate I feel is more justified than a potential £8 "ransom" being held against my article.

Well dont use the service and arrange your own clearance. Its already there to use.
Surely this way offers the consumer a better deal, with the option of the realistic and yet suitable fee's they wish to pay? also, surely for those who receive multiple packets, it should also be an idea that when that person pays the VAT etc, they can instruct HMRC to package them together and ship them both as one through royal mail?

So packages coming from multiple sources would be searched for collated,repackaged and sent on?

Again, minimizing the costs and the aggravation associated by the customer.
you think these systems would be minimizing costs?
Again, I know these are comments that should be moreso directed towards our dearly elected, and the border force individuals responsible for looking through the mankini's or whatever we are all ordering from abroad... but from a customer service perspective, surely this should be good for RM?

Well I think the idea of dumping the parcels at HMRC would be great for RM. The extra postage to send the items on would be great to. A small parcel via 2nd class is from £3. So we are already at £4 with your magic quid befoe you pay anything else.
RM wants to offer value for money, No,they want profit and given today the business has been split up and privatised (compared to the days this thread started anyway!) Surely, the idea of keeping costs down (less paperwork to fill in with the HMRC), customers happy (I dont feel bullied into paying what could be seen as an extortionate fee on perhaps a 20p VAT fee) and still generating more income (by offering a range of options to have the item delivered, as opposed to just slipping through free of charge) - this would be an ideal alternative?


Do you have any idea how small the volumes are in RM customs traffic? One Edinburgh unit I know would be getting circa 10K parcels on an average day. circa 10-15 customs charges on an average day. So where's the profit maker of those 2 mail streams?
At the end of the day, RM already filter out anything that "looks" like VAT would be applicable, chuck it on a lorry (oversimplified for this analogy) and throw it to the "care" of HMRC - so the costs are already being absorbed by the business at this point...

It goes in no lorry. They all work in the same buildings at point(s) of customs clearance.

The only way RM are going to be paid is if I part with the fee's, otherwise they then have to invest more effort in returning the item - thus entirely wasted and with no benefit.

And the majority pay for their items
Anyway, that's just my take. I look forward to receiving my electronic goods, though with my fortune, I suspect it wont make it through HMRC fee free - and I would begrudgingly pay the additional £8 - though I must admit, I think the 3 weeks period is a tad short. IMHO I would make it 4 weeks, as those such as the majority here who have been caught out by the "unexpected" nature of the fee, Perhaps RM should offer payday loans fro this purpose. Now theres a money maker.might like at least the next payday to reach so they can save up and pay whatever quantity of fee's is necessary) - getting back on track - I would pay the £8 but I would certainly be frustrated at the back of my mind, wondering why such a "simple" answer such as the one I just though up in a sleep deprived state at 04:00 this morning - could not be made into a working and manageable model (or something close to that idea proposed) where customers get a better deal.

RM dont have the money to administrate the set up you propose. Their IT is archaic ,from years of under investment.
I doubt UK Gov will be in any hurry to set up one in HMRC either


Any company who tries to bully me into a corner, ordinarily finds themselves with a flea in the ear at best, and ordinarily out of pocket, because they value my custom and would rather offer me a good will gesture / refund / compensation and keep my custom. Unfortunately I feel RM have the idea that as they are the main letter delivery agents of the UK, they have this particular monopoly and you have little other option to send a letter, or small packet. To send a letter,you dont. Is that RMs fault?I know of other couriers, but I think RM play on the ease of use with their service and the ever increasing postage costs and seem to take their customers for less value than any other business may do.

Anyway, that was more than I expected to write... back to page 13 I go and I look forward to watching the fights unfurl!

Ever increasing postage costs? I thought it was all free?

Money-Saving-King

jeebo wrote: »

I then should be able to log onto HMRC's website, and then offer to pay the £11 fee and should then have the option of how the parcel is then passed onto me. For example, if I wanted the RM's super duper GPS tracked service in realtime

Does HMRC's website currently allow this? If not who pays for it to be upgraded for this to happen?

XXIV_XXIV

Paying Customs, VAT and Duty are not new to me. I know and very familiar with it. Last week I recieve a "fee to pay" card. Recquired me to custom duty for a gift. Okay, I know I need to deal with HMRC. As I say, I already encounter paying HMRC charges including with Royal Mail. But weird thing is, I only receive 6 character reference for the first time, which raises my eyebrow (also their system don't also recognize it). I ask Royal mail about this, they just tell me that I can still pay. Ofcourse, you can still pay with or without reference id. But my point is, Royal Mail always give a proper reference even if the delivery method used is economy or standard. I have encounter "fee to pay" without reference but that's only when sender (inside UK) didn't pay enough for postage fee. Not with customs duty. I again ask Royal Mail to give the proper reference. And they say they nothing to do with this. What a head ache? The Reference is also needed when you claim for refunds, when you thought you're wrongly charge (which I never do) But I got no suficient reference. Any one encounter this problem and how did you dealt with this?

custardy

XXIV_XXIV wrote: »

Paying Customs, VAT and Duty are not new to me. I know and very familiar with it. Last week I recieve a "fee to pay" card. Recquired me to custom duty for a gift. Okay, I know I need to deal with HMRC. As I say, I already encounter paying HMRC charges including with Royal Mail. But weird thing is, I only receive 6 character reference for the first time, which raises my eyebrow (also their system don't also recognize it). I ask Royal mail about this, they just tell me that I can still pay. Ofcourse, you can still pay with or without reference id. But my point is, Royal Mail always give a proper reference even if the delivery method used is economy or standard. I have encounter "fee to pay" without reference but that's only when sender (inside UK) didn't pay enough for postage fee. Not with customs duty. I again ask Royal Mail to give the proper reference. And they say they nothing to do with this. What a head ache? The Reference is also needed when you claim for refunds, when you thought you're wrongly charge (which I never do) But I got no suficient reference. Any one encounter this problem and how did you dealt with this?

Contact the delivery office..

wrung_out

My daughter orders items frequently from Japan, China and America as the products she buys are not available in the UK. Three times this month we have received these cards.

I like others would like to be able to pay just the VAT due and not the handling fee which seems extortionate.

I have read the posts and would like an answer on the following as I cannot see this anywhere. If Royal Mail take items that it deems might be applicable for tax and forward them to and from HMRC, and then collect the tax from the customer plus handling fee. What happens to the cost for the items that HMRC receives but does not deem taxable, they just go on there merry way at a cost to RM, or is this cost for non-tax applicable items covered by my £8 charge?

Would seem unfair if I and others are swallowing this cost too?

marliepanda

wrung_out wrote: »

My daughter orders items frequently from Japan, China and America as the products she buys are not available in the UK. Three times this month we have received these cards.

I like others would like to be able to pay just the VAT due and not the handling fee which seems extortionate.

I have read the posts and would like an answer on the following as I cannot see this anywhere. If Royal Mail take items that it deems might be applicable for tax and forward them to and from HMRC, and then collect the tax from the customer plus handling fee. What happens to the cost for the items that HMRC receives but does not deem taxable, they just go on there merry way at a cost to RM, or is this cost for non-tax applicable items covered by my £8 charge?

Would seem unfair if I and others are swallowing this cost too?

You are paying for them to process and check your item, to issue a letter, etc. You may consider it extortionate, but doing it yourself would be more so.

Those items that do not attract import are passed along without any extra work and that is covered under the postage paid in the initial country. There are recipricol agreements in countries to do with mail. Sorting out your customs fees are not included.

If she doesnt want to pay, she needs to stop buying from countries outside of Europe, or start handling her own customs clearance which will cost her far far more than £8.

custardy

wrung_out wrote: »

I like others would like to be able to pay just the VAT due and not the handling fee which seems extortionate.

Well do so then......

shaun_from_Africa

marliepanda wrote: »

If she doesnt want to pay, she needs to stop buying from countries outside of Europe, or start handling her own customs clearance which will cost her far far more than £8.

You can do the clearance yourself and there isn't normally any cost involved apart from the stamps in sending the completed paperwork and payment to HMRC.

If you can get the sender to write "Goods to be customs cleared by the importer" on the customs declaration, the package will be held or sent to HMRC who will assess the charges due and write to you informing you of the amount to be paid.
You then have to send this payment to them and once it has cleared, they will release the package and allow it to be delivered.

You will save yourself £8 but may well end up waiting a few extra weeks for your goods and if there were any mistakes on the paperwork, probably far longer.
Is it worth doing it yourself for £8?
Not in my opinion.

marliepanda

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

You can do the clearance yourself and there isn't normally any cost involved apart from the stamps in sending the completed paperwork and payment to HMRC.

If you can get the sender to write "Goods to be customs cleared by the importer" on the customs declaration, the package will be held or sent to HMRC who will assess the charges due and write to you informing you of the amount to be paid.
You then have to send this payment to them and once it has cleared, they will release the package and allow it to be delivered.

You will save yourself £8 but may well end up waiting a few extra weeks for your goods and if there were any mistakes on the paperwork, probably far longer.
Is it worth doing it yourself for £8?
Not in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but from previous threads I didnt think this was 'free' This is just something I have found but there are a few examples of it dotted around the forum

It's perfectly possible to do your own clearance, but £8 is a total bargain. Look at your hourly pay from work - that's maybe 1 hour of overtime? It'll take longer than an hour to do the paperwork, plus on top of that, bonded storage and still requiring RM to pluck your package from the mail stream, and then potentially onward delivery (as you don't want them to do their bit).

George_Bray

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

"Goods to be customs cleared by the importer" [/I]on the customs declaration, the package will be held or sent to HMRC who will assess the charges due and write to you informing you of the amount to be paid.

I'm very grateful to you and others on this thread who've pointed out the above method of avoiding the Royal Mail's £8 fee. I must try it but whether an eBay seller in China will actually write the required phrase on the parcel is another matter. The £8 fee, as well as the current pricing of postage stamps and other aspects of the way they operate - it all leads to me disliking the Royal Mail so much that I hardly ever use them to send anything.