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Royal Mail £8 Internal Post Handling Fee scam?
Comments
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What an idiotic and ridiculous comment to make to this person. If you have nothing sensible or constructive to say Its best not to say it at all. The complaint about this charge (TAX) is justified in that the Royal Mail collect the duties on behalf of HM government therefore they should be paying the Royal mail for collecting this charge (TAX) not the new owner they are already paying the duty. If this was justified then every item we purchase from shops or retailers where duty should be paid then they should also be charging us £8 on each transaction. (I can only imagine the horrendous scenario where I go into a shoe shop and buy a pair of shoes for £50 plus £10 VAT and £8 to the shop for collecting the tax how ridiculous would this be. Or if george osbornes pasty tax had went through £1 for a hot sausage roll 20p VAT and £8 for collecting the 20p - £9.20 just brilliant.
Also Royal Mails argument their contract is with the sender is not true it is in fact with the person who pays for the delivery which is almost always the owner of the item who is the person who paid the seller for the item and also for the postage and is now the owner even though they have not yet received it. i.e. The seller is no longer the owner of the item and did not pay to send it, so the royal mail have no right to return it to the seller as the seller no longer owns it.
As for the import export trade comments it is difficult to manufacture genuine 50 year old second hand parts. Lets see what happens when the Royal Mail is fully privatised.
I hope all this is clear to you custardy.
Yes lets see what happens in October 2013...oh wait...what?....ummmm
So your solution for this 'problem' is?????0 -
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Ok this is my solution the Royal Mail put the card through the door with the reference number on it relating to the item to be delivered and the amount of duty due (the post man already does this) we the public can then go on line and pay the duty direct to the HM gov directly with paypal, dd, etc or even send payment through the POST, a reference number is issued indicating duty paid, printed out and presented to the Royal Mail and now the parcel can be release or redelivered at a cost. SIMPLE. Or they can do as all other businesses do and collect the duty and give it to the tax man same as my shoe shop does without getting paid to do it. Or they can request a fee from the government to collect the tax though I don't know of any other businesses gets paid by the government to collect VAT or TAX i.e. Tesco and thousands of other businesses do it daily, so why should Royal Mail have the privilege of being treated any different after all the government says it is a business.
This i believe is a solution, as for what I can do about it NOTHING and Royal Mail know this. These large organisations do what they want because they know they can get away with it, tax avoidance etc. It isn't only Royal Mail but Starbucks, Amazon and many other large organisations etc, it was only recently the government was going to clamp down on this and other loop holes, what have you heard since, NOTHING, so if the government has trouble beating large organisations what chance has the man in the street but this is no reason why people can't complain on a forum and maybe just maybe someone will be able to do something. I maybe should start an e-petition about this I believe when they reach a certain number the government must take notice, maybe custardy you will support it unless you've got shares in the Royal Mail.
If you have £1 or £10000 in your pocket these companies want it from you, every penny they have has in some way already came from you but they want more, in fact they want it all and don't give a damn about you, if you have a roof over your head, or if you can eat.0 -
Ok this is my solution the Royal Mail put the card through the door with the reference number on it relating to the item to be delivered and the amount of duty due (the post man already does this) we the public can then go on line and pay the duty direct to the HM gov directly with paypal, dd, etc or even send payment through the POST, a reference number is issued indicating duty paid, printed out and presented to the Royal Mail and now the parcel can be release or redelivered at a cost. SIMPLE. Or they can do as all other businesses do and collect the duty and give it to the tax man same as my shoe shop does without getting paid to do it. Or they can request a fee from the government to collect the tax though I don't know of any other businesses gets paid by the government to collect VAT or TAX i.e. Tesco and thousands of other businesses do it daily, so why should Royal Mail have the privilege of being treated any different after all the government says it is a business.
It doesn't work like that. This post in another thread explains how it works. There's a staff cost involved as stated below as to which shipments to inspect as well as other costs.Just to clarify, RM don't assess anything, they don't say which shipments are due duties and taxes.
They pay the HMRC (not border agency) to have staff present at the RM sorting hubs. These staff decide which shipments to inspect, bypass or assess.
That's what RM charge for, the movement of the mail to the HMRC staff which they pay for to be present in a hub location for speedy expediting of international freight through the hubs.
If the freight had to be moved off site to be cleared RM would charge for that too - so by having implants in the hub the costs are actually lower.0 -
Ok this is my solution the Royal Mail put the card through the door with the reference number on it relating to the item to be delivered and the amount of duty due (the post man already does this) we the public can then go on line and pay the duty direct to the HM gov directly with paypal, dd, etc or even send payment through the POST, a reference number is issued indicating duty paid, printed out and presented to the Royal Mail and now the parcel can be release or redelivered at a cost. SIMPLE. Or they can do as all other businesses do and collect the duty and give it to the tax man same as my shoe shop does without getting paid to do it. Or they can request a fee from the government to collect the tax though I don't know of any other businesses gets paid by the government to collect VAT or TAX i.e. Tesco and thousands of other businesses do it daily, so why should Royal Mail have the privilege of being treated any different after all the government says it is a business.
This i believe is a solution, as for what I can do about it NOTHING and Royal Mail know this. These large organisations do what they want because they know they can get away with it, tax avoidance etc. It isn't only Royal Mail but Starbucks, Amazon and many other large organisations etc, it was only recently the government was going to clamp down on this and other loop holes, what have you heard since, NOTHING, so if the government has trouble beating large organisations what chance has the man in the street but this is no reason why people can't complain on a forum and maybe just maybe someone will be able to do something. I maybe should start an e-petition about this I believe when they reach a certain number the government must take notice, maybe custardy you will support it unless you've got shares in the Royal Mail.
If you have £1 or £10000 in your pocket these companies want it from you, every penny they have has in some way already came from you but they want more, in fact they want it all and don't give a damn about you, if you have a roof over your head, or if you can eat.
I was going to break your post down by section.
CBA.
So simply go back to the same old point.
Do your own clearance.0 -
I've ordered books and CDs from Amazon.com and never paid import duty etc but I usually want it in a hurry go for the fastest way to have it sent - it's usually only a single item and I have it charged in GBP to avoid bank charges.
When I've ordered stuff from Sears International they charged for HMRC up front regardless of whether item is under limit so I haven't used them since.
I have bought stuff from Adam Lambert's website. When it was sent by a third party on the website's behalf via DHL to Switzerland then here I got hit with charges.
When it was sent DHL by a 3rd party to Surrey, re-labelled as domestic post and delivered by Royal Mail I didn't pay anything. It was only when I was breaking down the box to recycle that I pulled off the label to find a different label (albeit with my name on) underneath that I realised.
I looked at Alexander McQueen stuff in Selfridges, then at Kitson in LA, which ships. Though it was cheaper and also bc of rate of exchange, I had to add on import duty of 12% on the material in that style plus 20% VAT on the entire order including shipping and insurance plus the Royal Mail's £8.
It ended up being cheaper to buy from Selfridges by mail order and getting free postage.0 -
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Hi All,
long time reader of the MSE, and a new reader to this thread. So far I am finding it a rather exhilarating, amusing, and yet frustrating read at the same time. Good to see the likes of Custardy have continued to post on this thread.... Though I must admit, I am only up to page 13 so far, and if I dont get this idea out there now, I will forget it (guaranteed!)
I was brought here on the shock of the idea I may have to pay this crazy £8 as I have bought something from the land where almost everything is made (China) and appreciated VAT would be due, then in the small print I found the £8 charge of Royal Mail and it got me thinking...
Now its nice to see RM haven't hiked up the price in the time this thread has been running, but there is one point raised by those staff such as Custardy who work (or worked, I wouldn't be surprised if in the last 17 pages you have retired through stress!) that keeps coming back about the cost of all this delivery and man hours etc that does frustrate me a tad... Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong at any point here....
A friend goes to china, sends me a postcard back... He pays the postal service at the other side 20p or whatever the fee is, and the postcard is passed onto the aircraft, lands on royal mails door, who then in essence deliver the postcard for free?
If said friend was to deliver a small packet, which does not see the friends at customs and HMRC, said packet would still be delivered in essence for free by Royal Mail?
Now, whilst I dont expect RM to work for free at all times, I think there should be an element of balance here...
For example, I think a point that was regularly made and repeatedly argued previously was the monopoly of the situation with RM and in essence people being "bullied" into this purchase. I must admit I can understand their point of view, but I do have curiosity on my side to an idea such as this, and perhaps the likes of Custardy could advise how feasible these things really would be?
The goods I recently ordered come to just shy of £10 in tax, which I am happy to pay. If the goods do not get caught in the crossfire, RM will deliver them to me for free, and RM are happy to do so it would appear, as they do so without charging me a handling fee... What I dont understand is, why in this instance when the mail is isolated from the line, that element is considered a business expense by RM to be recovered later (dont shoot me yet, the point is coming!)
All business have expenses, and staff to employ, and whilst I can understand the points made by both parties of this argument, I think both parties make good points, but I revert to the idea my parcel is not caught up in HMRC and therefore would be delivered to me for free.
Surely it would be best for RM to continue as they are, deliver the parcels to HMRC and at this point have NO ADDITIONAL TRACKING than those which are already provided. For example, I know my packet has its own tracking reference, which all parties can monitor, track and confirm. So at this point, it would be good for RM to just hand it over to HMRC and for HMRC to charge me the just shy of £10 VAT which is due. Perhaps stick a £1 admin fee there, because they then have to send me a "were holding your parcel at ransom" note.
I then should be able to log onto HMRC's website, and then offer to pay the £11 fee and should then have the option of how the parcel is then passed onto me. For example, if I wanted the RM's super duper GPS tracked service in realtime, then I pay the cost for that, however, if I just wanted to pay second class to have the thing delivered to me as and when (its already been a month, seriously another week is hardly going to bother me!) then I pay HMRC the cost of a second class packet stamp (and perhaps a surcharge of 20p for the fact they had to chuck it onto the van and dump it on HMRC's door).
That way, I get the parcel I ordered, for a price I am willing to pay, with little "additional" work from RM, the same effort being involved, the fee's being applied, and RM being paid for the remainder of the journey, but at a rate I feel is more justified than a potential £8 "ransom" being held against my article.
Surely this way offers the consumer a better deal, with the option of the realistic and yet suitable fee's they wish to pay? also, surely for those who receive multiple packets, it should also be an idea that when that person pays the VAT etc, they can instruct HMRC to package them together and ship them both as one through royal mail?
Again, minimizing the costs and the aggravation associated by the customer.
Again, I know these are comments that should be moreso directed towards our dearly elected, and the border force individuals responsible for looking through the mankini's or whatever we are all ordering from abroad... but from a customer service perspective, surely this should be good for RM?
RM wants to offer value for money, and given today the business has been split up and privatised (compared to the days this thread started anyway!) Surely, the idea of keeping costs down (less paperwork to fill in with the HMRC), customers happy (I dont feel bullied into paying what could be seen as an extortionate fee on perhaps a 20p VAT fee) and still generating more income (by offering a range of options to have the item delivered, as opposed to just slipping through free of charge) - this would be an ideal alternative?
At the end of the day, RM already filter out anything that "looks" like VAT would be applicable, chuck it on a lorry (oversimplified for this analogy) and throw it to the "care" of HMRC - so the costs are already being absorbed by the business at this point...
The only way RM are going to be paid is if I part with the fee's, otherwise they then have to invest more effort in returning the item - thus entirely wasted and with no benefit.
Anyway, that's just my take. I look forward to receiving my electronic goods, though with my fortune, I suspect it wont make it through HMRC fee free - and I would begrudgingly pay the additional £8 - though I must admit, I think the 3 weeks period is a tad short. IMHO I would make it 4 weeks, as those such as the majority here who have been caught out by the "unexpected" nature of the fee, might like at least the next payday to reach so they can save up and pay whatever quantity of fee's is necessary) - getting back on track - I would pay the £8 but I would certainly be frustrated at the back of my mind, wondering why such a "simple" answer such as the one I just though up in a sleep deprived state at 04:00 this morning - could not be made into a working and manageable model (or something close to that idea proposed) where customers get a better deal.
Any company who tries to bully me into a corner, ordinarily finds themselves with a flea in the ear at best, and ordinarily out of pocket, because they value my custom and would rather offer me a good will gesture / refund / compensation and keep my custom. Unfortunately I feel RM have the idea that as they are the main letter delivery agents of the UK, they have this particular monopoly and you have little other option to send a letter, or small packet. I know of other couriers, but I think RM play on the ease of use with their service and the ever increasing postage costs and seem to take their customers for less value than any other business may do.
Anyway, that was more than I expected to write... back to page 13 I go and I look forward to watching the fights unfurl!0 -
so a while later and I have finally caught up with page 30. I am pleased to see there is a completely "free" approach to dealing with the paperwork, sadly though, this is only for those out there "in the know" and who are aware this can be done, however, I still think more could be done for the average Joe - who knows little of what is required, or ways around this.
What does frustrate me though is the idea that HMRC can decide the value of something is infact incorrect, and charge you more based on a higher value they deem.
Dont get me wrong, It would be bad for everyone to claim their brand new TV was only worth £20, and take the mick, and I appreciate its only a small proportion of parcels they review would come to scrutiny to be deemed an excessive value, but much as one chap on page 23/24 was saying, he only bought £12 worth of items from ebay and potentially HMRC have decided its worth much more than that (ignoring the content of the receipt) - Those situations I would say are fare to argue as unfair.
Anyway, its a shame things are not done more directly with HMRC, RM can do with less workload, and its a shame there isn't a way that HMRC can offer you the option of dealing with the paperwork yourself, or allowing RM to pick up the task. But then again, its a shame the idea of "self declared" isn't more publicly known (I certainly didn't know about it until about 10 pages ago!).
The only question of "self declaration".... the other party would need to provide declaration for the goods to leave their country, so would the idea of buyer declares not be relevant in this scenario?0
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