Vcs letter before claim...mistake of calling VCS when receiving NTK...Help!

nosferatu1001

Youre responding to a letter before claim
Just do so

DEFENCE means defence in court. Of course people have challenged standing - its on just about eveyr defence out there. But youre not writing a defence. Youre writing a response to a LBC

Suggii

hi again, i added few other bits from LOC response to LBC in the newbies thread for my letter..
please feel free to advise what else to add or delete or even changes to make. Thank you in advance.

Dear Sir
Ref: PCN ref xxxxxxxxxx
I am writing in reference to the recent letter before claim sent (Date) demanding for payment of the parking charge. I have explained previously through phone calls and an email sent explaining the incident (date) at the Albert Street car Park.
I am a private hire taxi driver, car registration (xxx xxx). On the day of the incident (date) I was working and driving on the request of my passenger, whom wanted to be dropped off at the Albert Street Car Park, as it was easier for them to walk towards New Street Station. I have attached a journey route of the journey I had made to prove I was on duty at the said time. However, upon leaving the car park my car broke down as it had an intermittent fault, due to this I couldn’t leave car park as desired, the fault resolved after a short while and I left the car park.
Your Letter before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim; it does not even the say what the exact cause of action is. Nor does it contain what evidence VCS intend to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.
This action on the part of VCS is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which VCS, a serial litigator of small claims, must be familiar. As you must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.
Nobody, including VCS, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. This letter is not an appeal, it must be considered as a Subject Access Request. I would like to request for all data held and processed which is;
1. An explanation of the cause of action;
2. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
3. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim;
4. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver;
5. a plan showing where any signs were displayed;
6. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
7. A close up of the sign on the day with the car parked/empty in the same view;
8. The added amount of £* on to the original charge of £100, what that represents and how it has been calculated.
9. All the photos taken on the day;
10. All human intervention notes;
11. All electronic data including automated decisions to generate letters;
12. All photos relating to this case, without holding none at all,
13. Copies of the PCN and all letters sent.
I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If VCS does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on VCS and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information.

This is a Subject Access Request but also an Objection to Processing and a formal request to Restrict Data Processing. As such, any litigation MUST be on hold and I will be making an Information Commissioners Office complaint for the mishandling of the Subject Access Request and Restricted Data request and misuse of my personal data evolving from; intrusive, unjustified, predatory and disproportionate collecting of photographic data of a car with a driver in it not parking at all and certainly nothing can be described as ‘reasonable cause’ to get DVLA data and demand money.
Until VCS has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for VCS to issue proceedings. Should VCS do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided
Kind regards
xxxxx

Suggii

P.S would it be worthwhile to also add onto this from the #post 2 newbies thread on ANPR misuse?

Suggii

Hi can anyone help me out, I wrote the updated response to the LBC above. I want to send it off before the end of the week. As I had 28days to respond. I will really appreciate if someone can have a look at if for me. Incase there are any errors in it.

Thank u

Le_Kirk

You need to decide if it is a rebuttal you are sending or a SAR. Your letter seems to be both or neither. Look at the links I refer to here. This is from post # 2 in the NEWBIE sticky which should be your GO TO point of reference whenever you have a question or a new situation arises.

If you have a Letter Before Claim (LBC, sometimes referred to on forums as a LBCCC), you must respond robustly. Look at examples of replies from LoadsofChildren123, who is legally qualified:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72358831#Comment_72358831

And here is an LBC reply about ANPR tickets and lack of compliance with the DPA in handling data and properly informing motorists about SARs (remove the P&D machine paragraphs and/or change 'ParkingEye' to your own PPC, if yours isn't a P&D car park by ParkingEye!):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74163362#Comment_74163362

DO RESPOND - but DO NOT phone them, DO NOT use a template, and DO NOT use the 'reply forms'.

This is an EASY formal letter to write - it will not stop most claims but it looks better to respond.

Suggii

I am a bit confused. As I read post #2 in newbies thread. I dnt know which way to go, whether to write a rebuttal or a SAR.
My husband doesn’t have any proof of his breakdown and only thing he has is his journey route from his taxi app.
He even doesn’t have any images of the signs as he didn’t look at them at the time ( he was just dropping a passenger, and not intending to park).
I just want to to know what would be the best advice, on how to go about it.
I would like to apologise if I am asking questions like this. It’s all stressful and confusing how these things work.

nosferatu1001

Well you have to do the rebuttal.

That isnt optional. YOU MUST respond to a LBA.

The sAR is optional, buit will give you useful info. So, you do both. Seperate letters.

Suggii

Thank u Nosferatu1001, I was confused but it makes sense writing two separate letters. What points can I address in the rebuttal? According to my husbands situation?
I will try and do both letters and upload ASAP on here.

Suggii

Got it, will write up rebuttal from the Daniel Sans letter. Hopefully will post on here tomorrow.
Thanks.

Suggii

Ref: XXX

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of XX (Month) 2018.

Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence you place reliance upon.

You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As litigation department you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and you, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action

2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated

5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.

6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.

7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor

8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed

9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added

11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on you and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until you have complied with your obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



Yours faithfully

---