The job centre are not helping. What to do?

Not_Another_Username

Me: Failed marriage, debt, severe depression, anti-depressants, etc. A bit of a mess, but I don't give up easily once I get my teeth into something.

"Get a job!" Yes, I understand that sentiment. Believe me, I have tried. Small holiday resort, seasonal work, less than minimum wage. Nearing 60 years of age. Scrap heap! But I would *really* like to get back into running my own business again and I believe I can do this, BUT the job centre are trying to stop me.

Since I am now 'owned' by the job centre, I have to conform to their rules. There is no leeway. I MUST do as they say. My coach is a nightmare and either doesn't know what she is doing, or is deliberately feeding me disinformation. I believe it is the latter.

After being told that I won't qualify for the New Enterprise Allowance scheme to try my new business idea, at least not without submitting a profit and loss forecast and a business plan, which I wouldn't be able to do at this time, I was steered in the direction of having to do the famous 'job search'. All the help I was initially promised regarding debt matters, budgeting, etc. went out of the window and I was dropped into the 'fit for work' category, despite providing the job centre with sick notes.

By chance, I saw someone else at the job centre a couple of weeks ago, a young girl, who told me that I most definitely *could* apply for the N.E.A. and she made me an appointment, there and then, for the initial session, which I attended. When I saw my coach the following week and told her about this, I let her know that she could have helped me with this. I also informed her that she got a few other important facts wrong.

First question: Can I request a different job centre coach? I wonder if I will be asking for trouble if I do? I have overheard staff conversations there and it wasn't pretty, listening to the contempt two of their staff showed for their claimants.

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Next problem: *If* I start the N.E.A., I will be paid £66 per week for 13 weeks. This is a reduction of £8 from my regular universal credit. This amount is then reduced to £33 per week for the following 13 weeks, then ... £zero! So I have a six month period of reduced payments, and then I am supposed to believe that I will have a profitable business where I will suddenly be able to pay ALL my bills and debts. That's pushing it a bit by anybody's imagination. I always understood that it takes an average of three years before a small business starts to show profit.

I would be better off telling the job centre to stuff it and go it alone, claiming working tax credits, if they still exist.

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Finally, and this one has really surprised me, I have been told that if I go on the N.E.A. scheme, I have to do 'job search'. I will have to apply for the usual daily quota of jobs, each within the usual 90 minute travel radius, or I will lose my universal credit. WHAAAT? Is this right? I have been told this is definitely NOT right. But that is what my coach has told me I MUST do.

I thought the job centre were supposed to help you? My recent experience shows am unfair and corrupt system, designed to control you and massage government figures.

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I won't go into my current financial status, but suffice to say that I don't have enough money to feed myself properly each week. I am desperate and don't know where to turn.

If anybody can help with advice of any kind, I will be extremely grateful.

ariarnia

Hmm... Reading though your post it looks like a few different things have been mixed up.

AFAIK, this is how it works:

When you apply for NEA there's a time between your application and starting your business where you work with a business mentor to come up with a business plan and your forecasts.

At this point you don't get access to any NEA allowances and are still claiming your unemployment benefits as part of your UC claim.

That means you still have to do all of the things that are required to be eligible for your unemployment benefits, like job searches.

AFTER you have your business plan, and the mentor is satisfied that it's a viable plan, THEN you can apply for the allowance and a business loan.

At that point you have stop your benefit claim and started trading and that's when you no longer have to comply with your job centre advisor's requirements.

You get your £66 per week, then add on business earnings, and potentially WTC.

The NEA scheme has no effect on Housing/Council tax benefit and the loan is normally over 3 years but you only have to pay the interest for the first year.

Essentially, if you combine NEA, WTC and HB together you can be a little better off than you would be on UC. Plus if the business turns a profit, you get to keep that.

marliepanda

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Next problem: *If* I start the N.E.A., I will be paid £66 per week for 13 weeks. This is a reduction of £8 from my regular universal credit. This amount is then reduced to £33 per week for the following 13 weeks, then ... £zero! So I have a six month period of reduced payments, and then I am supposed to believe that I will have a profitable business where I will suddenly be able to pay ALL my bills and debts. That's pushing it a bit by anybody's imagination. I always understood that it takes an average of three years before a small business starts to show profit.

I would be better off telling the job centre to stuff it and go it alone, claiming working tax credits, if they still exist.

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Most people start their own business alongside their own employed work (or with savings) this is simply a boost to that instead. It’s a help into getting people to try their own business but they’re not going to hold your hand for three years. They’re already going to help you do a business plan which you can’t do alone.

You say you’ve had your own business before so you should be better placed than most. You say you don’t give up once you get your teeth into something so I can’t see how your business will be an issue if it’s viable.

If you can’t work, then you need to claim ESA. The NEA isn’t just a way to get out of a job search...

JReacher1

In fairness if you want to start a business then creating a business plan would seem a sensible first step.

Doshwaster

Whenever I'm looking for a new job the Job Centre is the lsat place I would think of going. You are far better off applying to companies direct (find vacancies listed on their website) or through a recruitment agency where they have an incentive to find you a job as quick as possible. You Job Centre "coach" is getting paid the same whether you are unemployed or not.

If you have a new business idea then you would put yourself in a better financial position by getting a job - any job - and sticking at it for a year or so to build up some savings before taking the plunge on your own.

sangie595

I'm sorry, but judging by your attitude here and your previous posts, whilst I accept that you have some real challenges, it also does seem that you are at least partially the maker of your own difficulties. I can't entirely blame the job centre staff for wanting to see some element of actual planning and consideration before handing you money. People have used NEA to avoid job search and work related activity, claiming all sorts of "self employment " to access benefits without actually doing any work. And given that you are only claiming because you lost your ESA ... Well you can see that they'd be suspicious.

As for help with money management and debt, there are plenty of sources of this, widely advertised and easily accessible. The Job centre staff are there to get you into employment, not be your parent. Take some responsibility for your own situation and do something about it. If you are incapable of doing that, you'll struggle to run a business!

Your expectation is clearly stated- you think that you should be paid tax payers money to set up a business that you have no evidence will work (assuming that you intend to really do anything more than dabble to make it look like you are working) and you really think it's ridiculous that you can't have that money for three years because that's what you want. Really, your are being just a bit transparent, and it's not surprising that they aren't going along with your plans.

If you really want to make a business happen, it takes substantial hard work and not a little luck. There's no evidence that you want to work that hard!

Not_Another_Username

Thanks for your replies.

ariarnia: Thank you for the breakdown - very useful to have this in black and white and I think this agrees 100% with the information I was given at the NEA meeting. What I might have confused was the job search conditions while in that 12 week training period, but I have been told that the job search is not actually a requirement during this period. This information came from a friend who challenged this and discovered it was not necessary. I am still in two minds about this. Why would you be looking for work when you are starting a full-time business?

You mention a loan. I presume this is a loan for any equipment, etc. for the business. I would probably need a small loan. Three years sounds fair and I understand the interest is fair. What would be preferable would be a grant. I need to find out what grants, if any, might be available.


marliepanda: Thank you. Starting a business alongside another regular job would be preferable. Maybe the job search would be useful for this. As for having hand held, although I would be receiving a good deal of assistance in setting up my business, it is not a a patch on the Enterprise Allowance Scheme of many years ago. I did something else via the E.A. when in in my 20s. Back then, I received FULL benefit for ONE YEAR. The N.E.A. is a very poor comparison to this and weighed down by a few conditions. Not wishing to sound ungrateful, but surely this government would be able to a lot more when it comes to helping people get back into work. I won't go down the £4 billion grants to African countries route, but you see where I am coming from.

As for being better placed in setting up my business, very true. But it's still a huge gamble and one where everything could fall flat on its face.


Doshwaster is right. I would be far better off looking for a job myself, as opposed to that controlling farce of a job search thing. I have ap lan to set up something else while I am building my business. I just wish I had enough income now to tell the job centre where to shove it and then claim WTC.


JReacher1: The job centre will help me make a business plan and all the other necessities. They also help with basic bookkeeping - something I am not good at.


Again, thanks all.

marliepanda

Not_Another_Username wrote: »

marliepanda: Thank you. Starting a business alongside another regular job would be preferable. Maybe the job search would be useful for this. As for having hand held, although I would be receiving a good deal of assistance in setting up my business, it is not a a patch on the Enterprise Allowance Scheme of many years ago. I did something else via the E.A. when in in my 20s. Back then, I received FULL benefit for ONE YEAR. The N.E.A. is a very poor comparison to this and weighed down by a few conditions. Not wishing to sound ungrateful, but surely this government would be able to a lot more when it comes to helping people get back into work. I won't go down the £4 billion grants to African countries route, but you see where I am coming from.

So, this is the second time you have asked the government to help you set up a business, you're annoyed that the help isn't sufficient, yet you want to complain about the country trying to help third world countries? You have a roof over your head (paid for by tax payers) and now you want help AGAIN to set up a business, again funded by tax payers. I am quite happy for some tax money to go to helping those with no homes, with no free money from the government and no food banks they can access when they are hungry. No free healthcare.

I really hate when people are like 'why doesnt the government give ME more money and are instead giving it to all these foreigners' have you seen how other people live?? Its incredibly ignorant.

You then complain you'd much prefer a grant to a loan, well wouldnt we all, but why? Why should you get free money rather than money to pay back when you are successful?

ariarnia

Not_Another_Username wrote: »

What I might have confused was the job search conditions while in that 12 week training period, but I have been told that the job search is not actually a requirement during this period. This information came from a friend who challenged this and discovered it was not necessary. I am still in two minds about this. Why would you be looking for work when you are starting a full-time business?

Glad it was helpful.

As for your question, you need to comply with the job seeking requirements to receive the job seeking element of UC.

You can, of course, end your claim at any point by telling them you are no longer looking for work.

You aren't eligible for the NEA until your business plan is approved so you have the choice of complying with the job seeking or living off another source of money until you are eligible.

Some advisors, but I stress it varies, allow the NEA activities to count towards the required number of job seeking activities but it would be up to your advisor and your individual agreement to if what you were doing for the NEA was sufficient to exempt you from any other job seeking activity.

You can find information about government grants/loans/advice in your area and for your business stage here: https://www.gov.uk/business-finance-support

You also might find some of these courses helpful if you've not run a business for a few years: http://www.open.edu/openlearn/money-management/free-courses

w06

your post reads as though you're on Universal Credit, if you are you need to forget about WTC once you've set up your business because they no longer exist in your area.

Nobody will qualify for New Enterprise Allowance until they can provide a 'profit and loss forecast and a business plan'

sparks6

find some temp work to get some money in. NHS are always looking for workers.