Moorcroft Debt Recovery + Orange contract

Eyemean

Hello everyone, a while ago my sister applied for an orange contract phone online to use the free minutes to called abroad, a few months later they removed the numbers she calls from the free minutes. Soon after she called them and canceled the contract and they stated that the outstanding amount for the month should be paid, which is fine. She forgot about it for a month then received a letter from Moorcroft so she called them and asked if she could pay in installments, but they said it had to be paid in full at once. So i sent them the following:

With reference to the above agreement, I require you to supply me with a copy of the credit agreement before I will correspond with you further on this matter.


I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of the credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.
I understand a copy of the credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.
I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.


I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours faithfully

She received a letter from moorcroft a few days ago stating the following:

Thank you for your letter of 19th October 2007. At this stage we are currently unable to provide a copy of the agreement but must refer to the Terms and Conditions which were provided to yourself when you set up the account.

If there are any areas where you feel that a dispute in relation to the account still requires resolution please provide details. If this is not the case we look forward to receiving your settlement proposals.

We therefore return the £1.00 payment submitted in that connection.

So im just wondering what the next step would be from now?
She doesn't mind paying for what she owes, but can only afford installments at the moment.

Thank you in advance.
Eyemean

Eyemean

Hello,
Just an update on the current situation in case someone can help.

Moorcroft decided to send my sister the following letter:

(Dated 10/11/07 but received 12/11/07)

NOTICE OF INTENDED LITIGATION
To prevent the above action send payment in full before 17/11/07 or telephone 0161 475 2811

If you do not respond to this letter we will assume you are purposely avoiding repayment of this debt and will take the necessary steps to secure settlement which may include issuing legal action against you. Please note if legal action is necessary your debt will increase as follows:

Current balance - £185.83
Solicitors costs for issue of claim form - £50.00
Court Fees for issue of claim form - £20
Solicitors costs for entering judgment (by default) - £25.00
Total debt if judgment is obtained - £280.83

So she sent them a reply stating she could not afford to pay the total amount in one lump sum, but could pay 3 equal payments on the 1st of every month to clear the debt of £185.83 in full. If that was acceptable then to please send details of payment methods.

But for some reason she received the same NOTICE OF INTENDED LITIGATION (dated 10/12/07, received 12/12/070) expecting immediate payment by 17/12/07 or to call them.

It has been suggested from another forum that I send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to find out what the closing balance with orange was incase moorcroft has added some penalty charges. The last letter we received from orange stated that the outstanding amount was £129.34, for some reason my sister assumed £185.83 was correct.

So now i dont know what to do, shall i send the same reply back to them or should we send a S.A.R to be sure? (if yes,is there a template we can use please).

If it is found that Moorcroft have added £56.49 to the original amount can anything be done about that??

Also can she demand that we only have contact via letters, which she would prefer because she she has already spoken to them once before and they just demanded full payment no matter what she said.


Unfortunately I need to send some sort of reply off to them in the morning in case they take further action.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance


Eyemean

maytaurus

I really think it's time something was done about these mobile phone companies
they push their contracts onto people(especially young people in my opinion)
then when circumstances are such that the people can't afford to complete the contract........ they harass and threaten them....daily phone calls to the registered address
Even when they have been repeatedly told the person who took out the contract isn't at home
constant stream of threatening letters coming through the door
I know several people who've had this situation (including serving members of the military being sent over seas
The companies are not interested in the fact that people contact them as soon as they are aware of a problem,OR in the circumstances they find themselves in !
I think they should be brought to account
Thank God I have a paye phone ..........

rog2

Hi Eyeman - first of all, I would not worry too much about Moorcrofts 'Notice of Intended Litigation'. It is really just a 'standard letter' that they send out.
A bit naughty of them, really, since your sister effectively put the 'debt' into dispute when she asked for a copy of the original cca.
There is some dispute as to whether mobile phone contracts fall under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, but I, personally, believe that they do.
So - your sister is not trying to deny the 'debt', albeit that Orange 'changed' the terms of her contract, thereby allowing her to 'accrue' this level of debt. I would be inclined to question their actions, myself, but maybe all your sister wants is to get them off of her back.
She has made a fair offer of payment, which Moorcroft appear to have ignored. She should stick to her offer and NOT be bullied into paying what she can not afford.
In a way, it would probably be good for your sister if the Moorcroft thugs were to take her to Court, because she would be able to tell the court, in her defence, that; a. she has asked Moorcroft for a copy of the cca and not only have they failed to supply it, within the legal 12 working days, they have continued to press her for payment whilst the 'debt' was in dispute. And b; that they (Moorcroft) have rejected her offer of payment over three instalments.
If the Court were to decide that the 'debt' is, indeed, enforceable without the cca (doubtfull) then they would be most unlikely to 'order' your sister to pay the 'debt' at a rate higher than she can, reasonably, afford to.
At the very worst, they are likely to agree to your sister's offer of payment over three months and Moorcroft would be legally obliged to accept this offer.
In the meantime, may I suggest that you have a word with National Debtline - 0808 808 4000 - or one of the other debt counselling charities such as CAB or CCCS - they would be able to clarify her legal position, regarding the cca, and suggest her best course of action.
Good Luck.

Eyemean

Hello rog2, thanks for you advice, but i dont think my sister wants to let this problem drag too much and even go to court. It just more hassle than its worth.

A member from another forum suggested that personally he would send his first cheque direct to Orange and tell them the rest would be paid in two instalments directly to them, using the bill amount from Orange.

Which would be great for my sister, but at the same time orange where the ones that put her in this position.

Once she received her final letter from orange stating the outstanding amount she contacted them and asked if she could pay the full amount at the end of the next month, which they said would be fine. Then soon after, she received her first letter from moorcroft demanding payment. Over the phone, orange then told my sister it was nothing to do with them any more and to contact moorcroft.

But if sending a cheque direct orange would work she would be willing to try it, considering it would be approximately £56 cheaper for her.

Does anyone have any view on this course of action please?

Thank you in advance.
Eyemean

rog2

It could be worth making payments direct to Orange - I would always pay the original creditor in preference to a debt collection agency - but, in my opinion, I would be inclined to wait until the 12 working days had expired and send a letter to Moorcroft telling them to go forth and multiply.
However, I understand, and appreciate, your sister's position - I do feel that it is worth a letter to the customer service department at Orange stating that you are being 'harrassed by a company, called Moorcroft, to whom you acknowledge no debt whatsoever and who have been unable to provide details of the debt, to which she is, legally entitled.'
Tell Orange that, whilst she is unhappy with the debt, as it came about by Orange making a change to the terms of her contract, she is prepared to 'pay' the 'alleged debt (exclusive of the charges added on by Moorcroft) in three monthly payments, and enclose the first cheque with the letter.
Tell them that confirmation that the cheque has been cleared/cashed will be taken as full agreement, by Orange, of her offer.

Eyemean

Hello Rog2,

I like your suggestion for the letter, sounds perfect.

I will prepare the letter for my sister tonight so she can write her first cheque then i will post tomorrow morning registered post.

Your help has been greatly appreciated and i will post an update asap.

Regards
Eyemean

Eyemean

Hello Rog2, i noticed you also stated I should wait 12 working days and then send letter to moorcroft, not sure what letter you mean?

Also do you mean i should also wait 12 working days before i send the letter to orange aswell?

Regards
Eyemean

rog2

Eyemean wrote: »

Hello Rog2, i noticed you also stated I should wait 12 working days and then send letter to moorcroft, not sure what letter you mean?

Also do you mean i should also wait 12 working days before i send the letter to orange aswell?

Regards
Eyemean

Hi eyeman, sorry for the delay in replying - I have been looking into the 'legalities' of mobile phone contracts and whether or not they are covered under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act.

Ordinarily I would have reccomended that you send them the letter in the following link; http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=6921563#post6921563

This would, normally, do the trick, but, unfortunately, most mobile contracts are not 'credit agreements' in that they do not offer credit. They come under the heading of 'consumer service agreements' and do not enjoy the protection afforded by the Consumer Credit Act, I'm afraid.

Your sister can still contest any debt, but she would need to submit a S.A.R. - Subject Access Request, under the terms of the Data Protection Act. Orange would be obliged to provide her with ALL details that they hold on her, and she would need to use that data to highlight any anomalies in the account.

If she wishes to go down this route, then I would be glad to direct her to template letters, etc.

Eyemean

Hell Rog2,
I sent the letter this morning to orange, but am now unsure if this was the right thing to do.

I sent the first cheque in from myself due to her not having sufficient funds in her account, she just lives on her credit card then pays it off.

So i'll keep an eye on my account and see what happens. If i dont hear from orange either way, how long should I give them before sending another letter? (just to be prepared)

Cheers
Eyemean

rog2

Eyemean wrote: »

So i'll keep an eye on my account and see what happens. If i dont hear from orange either way, how long should I give them before sending another letter? (just to be prepared)

Cheers
Eyemean

Give them a couple of weeks, or until the cheque is cleared. If Moorcroft contact your sister, in the meantime, just tell her to say that she does not acknowledge any debt to Moorcroft, and any further contact, by them, will be considered as harrassment and reported to the appropriate authorities.

My guess is that Orange will cash the cheque, probably without taking much notice of your letter, but if your sister does get chased again, simply point out that Orange, by cashing your cheque, have accepted your offer of payment.

I hope both you and your sister have a relaxing Christmas.