Looking for information on how to help cousin come to UK for work

Red-Squirrel_2

YoungBlueEyes wrote: »

There are huge numbers of work shy benefits claimants.

How many? Can you show me the numbers please?

Tabbytabitha

YoungBlueEyes wrote: »

There are huge numbers of work shy benefits claimants.

Anyone remember Emma Harrison and A4E? Not for what it finally descended into, but for the purpose of her company? To get welfare claimants back to work.

She was hardly the only company out there doing it. It's a massive problem.

ETA - both the claimants and these companies are a huge drain on the public purse.

I disagree but, even if it were true, are these the people who you want to look after you in your dotage?

ohreally

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

HNC equates to the first year of a degree - if this were introduced there'd be no care workers at all!

It is introduced and registration has been required for well over 10 years.

sangie595

YoungBlueEyes wrote: »

There are huge numbers of work shy benefits claimants.

Anyone remember Emma Harrison and A4E? Not for what it finally descended into, but for the purpose of her company? To get welfare claimants back to work.

She was hardly the only company out there doing it. It's a massive problem.

ETA - both the claimants and these companies are a huge drain on the public purse.

Whilst I agree that private companies like this are a drain on the public purse, I never used the phrase "work shy", and it means something different to what I was talking about. The work shy wouldn't work if you gave them a priceless job on a platter. And they are few and far between. I find it amusing that everyone is falling into the trap they accuse me of - they are assuming that those on benefits don't want to work in care (or any other) work, and that they aren't compassionate or suitable people to do this work. Wow, that's quite a reach. They are also assuming that these people need to be forced into this or other work, and we wouldn't want people like that doing care work. Again, wow.... You don't any of you have much of a high opinion of benefit claimants, do you?

What I was talking about was the problem of people who refuse to go out to work for money which is not a lot more than the benefits they can claim. I'm not seeing that as necessarily a correlation with "work shy". If I win the lottery tonight, I won't be in work on Monday. Does that make me "work shy"? Of course not. It makes me sensible. Similarly, if someone was to give me the same amount of money to not work as to work, much as I love my job, I'd probably take the money! That doesn't make me work shy.

So why on earth are we discussing how unsuitable people claiming benefits are for care work, either emotionally or intellectually??? Getting people off benefits and into work does not have to mean coercion, and it doesn't have to mean using the system as it is. You are arguing for changing the immigration system to allow low paid and unskilled or low skilled workers from abroad to come here and do these jobs. Why not change the system to allow people here to train for them (if they need it) and enter the market into the work? Why not improve our system to make the jobs - and other lower paid jobs - more attractive? That doesn't necessarily even need much money - if we could give workers the real living wage, put in employment rights from, say, six months (as it once was in my youth!), and get rid of zero hour contacts entirely, I think you would find that a lot of people would find that an attractive proposition.

As for that minority who really are work shy, I'm a genuine leftie, not a woolly liberal leftie. I certainly would force them to work for benefits. Or starve. And I would have no problem with that at all.

So there you are- one suggestion for how to do this without importing cheap labour.

Now, for the umpteenth time of asking, all those people who want to import cheap labour to do the jobs we aren't doing ourselves, please explain how this is compatible with a continuing high quality social and health care system, how you are going to fund it, and you could throw in why you think the unemployed are unsuitable for compassionate work!

Comms69

sangie595 wrote: »

Whilst I agree that private companies like this are a drain on the public purse, I never used the phrase "work shy", and it means something different to what I was talking about. The work shy wouldn't work if you gave them a priceless job on a platter. And they are few and far between. I find it amusing that everyone is falling into the trap they accuse me of - they are assuming that those on benefits don't want to work in care (or any other) work, and that they aren't compassionate or suitable people to do this work. Wow, that's quite a reach. They are also assuming that these people need to be forced into this or other work, and we wouldn't want people like that doing care work. Again, wow.... You don't any of you have much of a high opinion of benefit claimants, do you?

What I was talking about was the problem of people who refuse to go out to work for money which is not a lot more than the benefits they can claim. I'm not seeing that as necessarily a correlation with "work shy". If I win the lottery tonight, I won't be in work on Monday. Does that make me "work shy"? Of course not. It makes me sensible. Similarly, if someone was to give me the same amount of money to not work as to work, much as I love my job, I'd probably take the money! That doesn't make me work shy.

So why on earth are we discussing how unsuitable people claiming benefits are for care work, either emotionally or intellectually??? Getting people off benefits and into work does not have to mean coercion, and it doesn't have to mean using the system as it is. You are arguing for changing the immigration system to allow low paid and unskilled or low skilled workers from abroad to come here and do these jobs. Why not change the system to allow people here to train for them (if they need it) and enter the market into the work? Why not improve our system to make the jobs - and other lower paid jobs - more attractive? That doesn't necessarily even need much money - if we could give workers the real living wage, put in employment rights from, say, six months (as it once was in my youth!), and get rid of zero hour contacts entirely, I think you would find that a lot of people would find that an attractive proposition.

As for that minority who really are work shy, I'm a genuine leftie, not a woolly liberal leftie. I certainly would force them to work for benefits. Or starve. And I would have no problem with that at all.

So there you are- one suggestion for how to do this without importing cheap labour.

Now, for the umpteenth time of asking, all those people who want to import cheap labour to do the jobs we aren't doing ourselves, please explain how this is compatible with a continuing high quality social and health care system, how you are going to fund it, and you could throw in why you think the unemployed are unsuitable for compassionate work!

In fairness most people wont be in work on Monday


But I agree with what you're saying.

jonnygee2

"My country" is doing exactly what most countries do - protecting jobs for their own citizens first

There are not enough people in care work. If British citizens want to work in care there are plenty of jobs available. Skills for care estimates there are 90,000 care jobs available at any one time.

Why not improve our system to make the jobs - and other lower paid jobs - more attractive? That doesn't necessarily even need much money - if we could give workers the real living wage, put in employment rights from, say, six months (as it once was in my youth!), and get rid of zero hour contacts entirely

Not sure what kind of cloud you are living in, but the financial implications of this are huge. Significant wage rises coupled with loss of flexibility for the employer would be a significant expense.

I would personally happily increase tax and make wealthy pensioners pay more for their care to achieve this, though, so I don't disagree with the proposal.

But this change needs to come from national legislation and apply regardless of the sector. There is no need to to plunge the care sector into a labour crises in order to motivate this change.

You seem to think that immigrants, rather than the government, are responsible for the poor labour conditions in this country.

Now, for the umpteenth time of asking, all those people who want to import cheap labour to do the jobs we aren't doing ourselves, please explain how this is compatible with a continuing high quality social and health care system

Short term, quite simply, we need the labour to keep the wheels moving. Long term, improvements can and should be made and immigration should not affect this.

Once we have good working conditions, and there's a queue of British people waiting to get jobs in care work and other low paid sectors, it then makes sense to restrict immigration.

how you are going to fund it

Economic immigrants are net contributors to the economy. So that's one way I'd help fund the changes needed.

and you could throw in why you think the unemployed are unsuitable for compassionate work

Straw man. No one argued this, ever.

sangie595

You are going to allow immigration until employment conditions improve? You are going to tax people heavily - not just the rich - to pay for services whilst letting companies exploit labour? And This will improve things? Rubbish. And I never said immigrants are responsible for the current position - I have made it clear that they are also victims of cultural imperialism and exploitation by employers!

It's you who is living in a cloud...

Edit: I thought I recalled you jonnygee. You are the person who a few short weeks ago thought that expecting employment contracts to be written in accordance with the law, and that expecting employers to act morally was "unrealistic". Now I can see why you support bringing immigrants into the UK to do the kind of jobs that aren't conforming to the law, and will do that until "conditions in jobs improve".

jonnygee2

You are going to allow immigration until employment conditions improve?

I would allow economic migrants to take jobs in sectors with labour shortages until there ceases to be a huge skill shortage in those sectors.

You are going to tax people heavily - not just the rich - to pay for services whilst letting companies exploit labour?

No, I would stop the labour abuses. This would cost a lot of money, though, especially in care, a largely state-funded sector. One way I would fund this is to make pensioners with assets pay more for their care.

Policies that will cost money need funding.

Comms69

jonnygee2 wrote: »

I would allow economic migrants to take jobs in sectors with labour shortages until there ceases to be a huge skill shortage in those sectors.



No, I would stop the labour abuses. This would cost a lot of money, though, especially in care, a largely state-funded sector. One way I would fund this is to make pensioners with assets pay more for their care.

Policies that will cost money need funding.

So you want to encourage people to work, by telling them you'll asset strip their golden years?.....

Red-Squirrel_2

sangie595 wrote: »

Whilst I agree that private companies like this are a drain on the public purse, I never used the phrase "work shy", and it means something different to what I was talking about. The work shy wouldn't work if you gave them a priceless job on a platter. And they are few and far between. I find it amusing that everyone is falling into the trap they accuse me of - they are assuming that those on benefits don't want to work in care (or any other) work, and that they aren't compassionate or suitable people to do this work. Wow, that's quite a reach. They are also assuming that these people need to be forced into this or other work, and we wouldn't want people like that doing care work. Again, wow.... You don't any of you have much of a high opinion of benefit claimants, do you?

Ok sorry, you are massively contradicting yourself and getting away with it by writing massive rambling posts that nobody will be bothered to deal with!

You stated that the problem with importing foreign care workers is that we have unemployed people here already who could do the work.

If they wanted to be care workers, they would be, wouldn't they? Its not exactly a difficult industry to get into!