Help please - have i made a mistake?

Fruitcake

As far as I am aware, Council car parks must not be run as if they are private land, but operated using council car park rules.

You should therefore complain to the landowner which in this instance appears to be the council.

Have a look at this thread, especially post 9 for more information about this.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70895919#Comment_70895919

Standupforyourself

car park in question is Ropery CP in Ilfracombe. It is council land but parking run by Premier.

council own the land.

Coupon-mad

But you've admitted to driving in the appeal so you already threw away any talk about it being Council land/not relevant land/no keeper liability.

Like hundreds of people before you, some of whom then lose at POPLA but so what? No-one pays. Search Premier Park POPLA lost and read some threads by people who did it wrong, blabbed in an early appeal about who was driving (or lost for some other reason) but still sat tight, as you will if you lose at POPLA.

How can we stop threads asking 'have I made a mistake, I named the driver?' We get this so often and really can't keep replying with the same old stuff.

Groundhog Day here and this is untenable.

Why not just search 'shot myself in the foot' and find the zillions of other threads all the same. Or search for the single word: 'blabbed' and you'll see it discussed to death.

Standupforyourself

No, I've had a response from PP and they have requested driver details so looks as if any mistake i made has been corrected sufficiently.

Apologies if this is treading same old ground for a seasoned pro like yourself but no one is forcing you to respond. Appreciate the feedback however.

Loadsofchildren123

So:
Entry: 11.21
Ticket purchased 11.32 - so an 11 minute interval. That's on the cusp of the expected grace period so you can argue that it was raining, it took a while to find a space and park in it, you had to wait while someone was reversing out etc, you had to get an umbrella to go to the machine and read the signs, you had to queue up etc, this took 11 minutes.



First ticket expired at 13.32 and new one bought 13.47, a delay of 15 minutes.
This is problematic under grace periods. 15 mins is an awfully long time to say you were queuing, particularly when driver would be saying that in the first grace period they read the signs and bought a ticket, so they would have been aware of the terms.



Second ticket expired at 14.47 and car drove out 6 minutes later - I'd say that this is within grace periods.


So your problem is the 15 minutes in the middle. You are in trouble if you rely solely on grace periods and need to find additional defences.

Standupforyourself

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Then you WERE driving? Stop obsessing over trying to turn it back away from being the driver, seeing as PP use the POFA it makes no odds and you have said you were driving and you were.

Continue that way like everyone else does who did the same (we get this same question every week).

No-one is fooked v PP, everyone has a case, not sure why we are even discussing this straightforward PP case that is covered in the NEWBIES thread.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But you've admitted to driving in the appeal so you already threw away any talk about it being Council land/not relevant land/no keeper liability.

Like hundreds of people before you, some of whom then lose at POPLA but so what? No-one pays. Search Premier Park POPLA lost and read some threads by people who did it wrong, blabbed in an early appeal about who was driving (or lost for some other reason) but still sat tight, as you will if you lose at POPLA.

How can we stop threads asking 'have I made a mistake, I named the driver?' We get this so often and really can't keep replying with the same old stuff.

Groundhog Day here and this is untenable.

Why not just search 'shot myself in the foot' and find the zillions of other threads all the same. Or search for the single word: 'blabbed' and you'll see it discussed to death.

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

So:
Entry: 11.21
Ticket purchased 11.32 - so an 11 minute interval. That's on the cusp of the expected grace period so you can argue that it was raining, it took a while to find a space and park in it, you had to wait while someone was reversing out etc, you had to get an umbrella to go to the machine and read the signs, you had to queue up etc, this took 11 minutes.



First ticket expired at 13.32 and new one bought 13.47, a delay of 15 minutes.
This is problematic under grace periods. 15 mins is an awfully long time to say you were queuing, particularly when driver would be saying that in the first grace period they read the signs and bought a ticket, so they would have been aware of the terms.



Second ticket expired at 14.47 and car drove out 6 minutes later - I'd say that this is within grace periods.


So your problem is the 15 minutes in the middle. You are in trouble if you rely solely on grace periods and need to find additional defences.

Ive had this back from PP:

We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.

We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:


We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by XXXX Please note, Premier Park Limited will not reply to any correspondence until after the above date, if the requested information is not provided.

If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.


is this good?

Btw, the 15 minutes thing is baffling but i guess we were sheltering from the weather. The fact we bought another ticket shows we were not trying to frustrate or deceive any perceived "contract" between us and the parking company.

Moreover, I'm almost certain there were no entrance signs informing us of any Ts and Cs.

Umkomaas

No requirement under PoFA for the RK to reveal the driver's identity. If you don't respond (and not suggesting you do), PP will send a rejection of your original appeal and provide you with a POPLA Code - around day 35 from your initial appeal.

Coupon-mad

Would have been quicker to simply search this forum for a phrase from that standard letter and find it discussed more times than we care to remember.

Reading any other PP thread would have told you to expect that, and ignore it.

Standupforyourself

Hi One and All

I've finally had a response from PP but it is not what i expected. They emailed to request that i submit a Disclosure Authority Consent Form and that i need to do this before they can respond to my appeal

I am acting on behalf of the registered keeper so do i need to do this?

thanks

Quentin

In your previous posts you appealed as driver

Why now want the keeper to deal with this,?

As you have been advised this PPC turns to the keeper for liability anyway if the driver is not identified