Help please - have i made a mistake?

Coupon-mad

Is there something specific here that exonerates the keeper from liability? The land is council owned.

Yes of course.

Very simple. The POFA, Schedule 4 (read it)...Council land is not 'relevant land', keepers cannot be held liable.

Standupforyourself

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes of course.

Very simple. The POFA, Schedule 4 (read it)...Council land is not 'relevant land', keepers cannot be held liable.

I puled this from POFA Schedule 4:

3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
(a)a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c)any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

So because it is council owned landed does this mean it is "highway maintainable at the public expense" and therefore not applicable here?

Coupon-mad

Exactly - or arguably 'under statutory control (or should be). Yep, not relevant land therefore no 'keeper liability' provisions exist in law.

Standupforyourself

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Exactly - or arguably 'under statutory control (or should be). Yep, not relevant land therefore no 'keeper liability' provisions exist in law.

sorry i should also said it is clearly a:

(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority

is this a slam dunk then or do i need other defenses?

Coupon-mad

You always need other points and you are not at defence stage, only appeal.

POPLA might not agree with the 'not relevant land' interpretation or the PPC might show it's actually privately owned in that section.

Standupforyourself

Umkomaas wrote: »

Do a formal Freedom of Information Request via WhatDoTheyKnow.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com

thanks for the tip but i did already do this. I had a response and the council said they could release that information as it contained sensitive commercial information. I wrote back and said that they should provide a redacted contract and it is to this request i am waiting hear feedback. That was over three weeks ago.

Standupforyourself

here is the link to the signage.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/09i58nkwoj5s3wq/AAC0Qhg31sgSCt2ksXy9RBNNa?dl=0

Welcome comments on their effectiveness. Personally i feel that the entrance signage is massively inadequate and hard to read from a car window.

Coupon-mad

I think POPLA would say they are clear enough, but that's not saying not to include a section about unclear signs (just don't put those images in as they are clear!).

I see they mention Ilfracombe Council are 'not involved' in the parking, and POPLA might just swallow that whole because ''it says so on the sign''.

So you will need to rebut that statement with clear evidence to POPLA to convince them that in fact this IS Council-owned land, and should not be enforced as if it were private land because it isn't (prove why).

Standupforyourself

i'm starting to get concerned about strength of my case! I thought that entrance sign was small and as a driver you'd be past it in a flash and would have no idea that cameras were in operation.

Grace periods seem to be out the window too!

I'm pretty sure POFA compliance is there too looking at the original NTK but i can post a redacted version if anyone wants to take a look.

Standupforyourself

to add, this was taken directly from an email i had from the council:

"Ilfracombe Town Council own the Ropery Road car park and the land.

Premier Park are sub contracted by Ilfracombe Town Council to manage the car park, PP is the civil enforcement agent."