Landlord claims breach of contract because of SmartMeter

Pixie5740

missbunty wrote: »

yes, they stated it in writing, citing it because they said the TDS would not handle my case since they have not incurred any financial loss, but rather, i have breached my contract.

Your landlord is full of crap. He knows full well he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

dimbo61

Unless the Landlord has stated in very clear terms that you cannot fit a smart meter in the tenancy agreement then he is talking !!!!!!!! !
He is holding the whole deposit back !
Use the TDS arbitration scheme and you could get your deposit returned in full unless he can come up with other reasons to try and make deductions ?
Smart meters do not save ONE Penney in energy costs and are costing every household £300 in costs for all the stupid adverts in the TV and radio.
Energy suppliers are pushing the installation of smart meters due to huge fines if they fail to meet targets.
Spending £300 could replace every single lightbulb in a property with LED lighbulbs and pay for energy's saving technology ( IE movement sensors in hallways, bathrooms, kitchens etc )
As a Landlord I would be livid if a tenant had failed to pay the energy bills and pre payment meters had been fitted due to arrears as this effects the energy costs of the new tenant ( more expensive to repay the outstanding debt )
Your Landlord is trying to keep the deposit pure and simple so be prepared to write a letter before Action and take the LL to court.
Good luck in getting your full deposit back

Mrs_pbradley936

I can only think that the previous one was a pay as you go type - in that case it is far easier to deal with those because sometimes the landlord is approached to pay a utility bill that is outstanding:

https://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/guides/electricity_and_gas_charges.shtml

This can happen when the place is empty for a while because someone has moved out and perhaps the place is being decorated or something before the new people come in.

If the place has a pay as you go and the builder wants to make tea or put the light on he only has to take the key to a local shop and put a £5 on it or the landlord can go and put a £5 on it. If it has another type he won't do a thing and just make his tea and put the lights on and the landlord will get the bill.

That in practical terms is the only objection I can think of and in any event it is not your concern once you have moved out.

robatwork

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

If it's for his flat - then it's his meter - even if it doesnt belong to him.

Not forgetting - it certainly doesnt belong to the tenant.

I'm afraid your credibility has disappeared out the window on this one. You need to hold your hands up and say "I was wrong".

OP as soon as you mention TDS and you dispute any withholding of your deposit on this specious claim, he'll fold like a pack of cards.

Skools_Out

missbunty wrote: »

Hi all

I was private renting in the UK up until recently and received a letter from my energy provider about 5 months ago stating my (old) meter needed replacing and they would fit a SmartMeter. I arranged for the SmartMeter to be fitted and ended up finding it very useful as it helped me monitor my energy use and reduce my high bill a bit. I've since moved out but now the Landlord is up in arms about the fact that I had a smartmeter installed without their consent.

They did not pay for the energy bills and it was not part of the tenancy agreement so from what I understand doing research, it's my right as a tenant to choose my own supplier (which would apply to the new tenant as well).

The landlord now claims I breached my tenancy agreement since I made changes to the property without consent, however, I do not see how the landlord owns an electricity meter? Am I wrong here to assume that the meter is owned by either the energy provider or any other third party, but not the Landlord? I tried to look into this but couldn't find any information and am struggling to get a hold of someone at the energy supplier.

The landlord insists i change back their meter to the old analogue one (!!!) and intends to hold mz deposit back in full but conveniently ignores me pointing out that this is not their decision, but the new tenants, and that I do not see how this relates to their property as the meter is in a communal cupboard outside the flat...

Any advice here is appreciated. I have already raised a dispute with the TDS and am trying to get hold of the supplier, but if anyone has a tip that would be helpful.

It doesn't matter who owns the meter. The landlord may not even own the property.

The general rule is that unless you return the property in the same condition as in it was originally let (save fair wera and tear), then you will be in breach of the tenancy agreeement.

I see you accept by your own admission that you arranged for the smart meter to be fitted. I also see that later in this thread you now agree you should have sought the landlord's permission you set about changing the property which was let to you.

The situation is not dissimilar as to changing a credit meter to a PPM (or vice versa)

Renting? You'll need your landlord's permission to switch meter

Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/switch-prepaid-gas-electricity/


The main difference here is that the remedy available to the landlord is normally to charge the teanat (e.g. by deduction from the security deposit) the cost of returning the property to the same condition it was originally let in.


The difficulty here is that the landlord may not be able to arrange for the smart meter to be replaced with a traditional meter at any cost.
What the lanlord may, however, be able to demonstrate is that by changing the meter to one that is less appealing to the the local market, that could adversely affect the rental value in future. Who do you think should pay for that?


There are several threads on the Energy board from p4eople who are generally unhappy with smart meters at present, not leaset because as soon as there is a change of supplioer, they revert to dumb meters ... but are generally more difficult to read manually than traditional meters.


So, in future, if you want a property that you can do what you want with (within reason and legality), buy your own!

Don't expect a reference from this landlord unless you first re-build your bridges and come to an amicable resolution.

silvercar

I thought that suppliers tell tenants to check with their landlord before agreeing an installation of a smart meter.

I am waiting until the second generation of smart meters to launch. These will allow the meter to be read by any supplier, making it easier to change suppliers. As the government initiative only relates to the first smart meter installed, properties that already have a first generation smart meter are unlikely to get a second generation one installed quickly and possibly not free.

If you need a gadget to stop you wasting electricity you can buy one.

macman

Even if it was a breach of contract by the OP, which I would dispute, the LL's claim would fail because they have suffered no loss whatsoever. The suggestion that a smart meter might make the property harder to rent is frankly absurd: if it does revert to a dumb meter, we are simply back where we started.

Comms69

Skools_Out wrote: »

It doesn't matter who owns the meter. The landlord may not even own the property.

The general rule is that unless you return the property in the same condition as in it was originally let (save fair wera and tear), then you will be in breach of the tenancy agreeement.

I see you accept by your own admission that you arranged for the smart meter to be fitted. I also see that later in this thread you now agree you should have sought the landlord's permission you set about changing the property which was let to you.

The situation is not dissimilar as to changing a credit meter to a PPM (or vice versa)



Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/switch-prepaid-gas-electricity/


The main difference here is that the remedy available to the landlord is normally to charge the teanat (e.g. by deduction from the security deposit) the cost of returning the property to the same condition it was originally let in.


The difficulty here is that the landlord may not be able to arrange for the smart meter to be replaced with a traditional meter at any cost.
What the lanlord may, however, be able to demonstrate is that by changing the meter to one that is less appealing to the the local market, that could adversely affect the rental value in future. Who do you think should pay for that?


There are several threads on the Energy board from p4eople who are generally unhappy with smart meters at present, not leaset because as soon as there is a change of supplioer, they revert to dumb meters ... but are generally more difficult to read manually than traditional meters.


So, in future, if you want a property that you can do what you want with (within reason and legality), buy your own!

Don't expect a reference from this landlord unless you first re-build your bridges and come to an amicable resolution.

Schools definitely out for summer...

hb2

Every answer I have found clearly states that the tenant does not have to ask the LL if they want a smart meter

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+i+have+to+ask+my+landlord+if+i+can+have+a+smartmeter&rlz=1C1JZAP_enGB801GB801&oq=do+i+have+to+ask+my+landlord+if+i+can+have+a+smartmeter&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.15443j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

elenemc

A smart meter is great while you are with the supplier who installed it but when you want to change to another supplier you will be told it "may lose some functionality". In other words it will no longer function as a smart meter because the government as usual has rolled out the whole smart meter program prematurely before the technology is ready. In fact rather than encourage freedom to move between suppliers, people are tied to the supplier who installed the meter unless they are happy to forego smart meter functionality to make savings.