Landlord claims breach of contract because of SmartMeter

missbunty

tacpot12 wrote: »

The landlord would not win a breech of contract claim in court, and I expect the deposit protection scheme will also not allow a deduction from your deposit for this. The landlord will not lose any money as a result of having a SmartMeter fitted.

that is what i assumed, especially as the LL stated they are not suffering any loss. they told me the TDS would not deal with my claim as it is outside of their remit but i did not see anything about this on the TDS website, so assume they just want to wear me down...

studentguy

I don't see why it matters - a water meter yes, because that's a fundamental change to how a property is billed, but a smart meter is no different to a normal meter as far as to how it charges you - the only reason I could see why the LL didn't want one is due to the horror stories of bodge installations - but assuming that's not the case then it makes his property more rentable as it helps tenants with their bills.

From the Smart Energy website:

If you pay the bills, and are the named account holder, you!!!8217;re entitled to ask your energy supplier for a smart meter. We recommend letting your landlord know that you are having a smart meter installed.

https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/how-to-get-a-smart-meter/how-can-i-get-a-smart-meter/tenants

If you directly pay your energy supplier for the gas or electricity in your rented property, you can choose to have a smart meter installed. We!!!8217;d recommend you tell your landlord before you get one. That!!!8217;s because there may be rules in your tenancy agreement about how energy is supplied to the property, including the type of meter that can be installed. If your landlord pays the energy bill for the property, the decision to get a smart meter is up to them.

We!!!8217;re encouraging landlords to help their tenants benefit from the national rollout of smart meters, and to tell you they are happy for you to install one. If your tenancy agreement says you need your landlord!!!8217;s permission to alter metering at your property, your landlord or letting agency should not unreasonably prevent it.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/understand-smart-prepayment-and-other-energy-meters/smart-meters-your-rights

So check the contract, but unless it's explicitly mentioned, he/she hasn't got a leg to stand on - even then, they're not allowed to be unreasonable about it, and if it helps you save money then it's hardly fair they hold out on letting you install one unless they have a really good reason.

As far as I'm concerned he/she can go do one, unless they're willing to take on the bills.

missbunty

Pixie5740 wrote: »

It's not "his" meter, the landlord doesn't own it. What difference do you think it makes to the landlord whether there's a regular meter or a smart meter in the property?

this is what i don't understand!! i am absolutely baffled the LL has turned this into such a big thing - they do not live there! it's in the communal cupboard! and the LL even confirmed to me that they simply don't like a smart meter....i mean, fair enough if they don't want it in their own residential home but they have no good reason beyond "we want the old meter back!!!"

missbunty

studentguy wrote: »

I don't see why it matters - a water meter yes, because that's a fundamental change to how a property is billed, but a smart meter is no different to a normal meter as far as to how it charges you - the only reason I could see why the LL didn't want one is due to the horror stories of bodge installations - but assuming that's not the case then it makes his property more rentable as it helps tenants with their bills.

From the Smart Energy website:





So check the contract, but unless it's explicitly mentioned, he/she hasn't got a leg to stand on - even then, they're not allowed to be unreasonable about it, and if it helps you save money then it's hardly fair they hold out on letting you install one unless they have a really good reason.

As far as I'm concerned he/she can go do one, unless they're willing to take on the bills.

the tenancy contract only states that i am not allowed to make any changes to their property but since this is not their property, i don"t think this applies. also, they have already mentioned small claims court but tried to scare me by saying the costs for that would outweigh my deposit (which i doubt)....even then i'd be willing to risk it as i don't want to give up on this without a fight. the tenancy agreement does not mention smart meters / metering in any way as they were never the bill payers.

Pixie5740

I think it's worth letting the TDS arbitrator decide or small claims court if he refuses to use adjudication. Let us known how you get on.

Carrot007

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Add they may have read about the health hazards of them.

And your credibility went out the window unless you live in a faraday cage.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Add they may not appreciate the privacy intrusion aspect of someone at the end of a computer screen elsewhere in the country being able to check on whether the amount of fuel being used at any given moment is consistent with the occupier being in.

They don't work like that either. They are either read daily or monthly. Yes the reads may be HH periods if you agreed to that but they are certainly far from instant.

steampowered

It sounds like your landlord has been reading a bit too much Daily Mail. I would write a letter or formal email along the following lines.

--

Dear Mr Landlord

I am sorry to hear that you object to a smart meter being installed, particularly given that smart meters on average result in lower energy bills for the account holder, and that some of the cheapest tariffs are only available to those who have a smart meter.

Please note that, pursuant to, the account holder at a property (including the tenants in relation to rented properties) has a legal right to choose their energy supplier and to choose to have a smart meter installed. The consent of the landlord is not required.

You can verify this for yourself on Ofgem's website, which states that "If you rent your property and your gas and electricity bills are addressed to you rather than your landlord, you don’t need your landlord’s permission to get a smart meter".

If the new account holder does not like the smart meter, they are entitled to ask their supplier to disable the smart functionality in the meter, which means it no longer sends messages to the supplier, and turns it into an old fashioned traditional meter. Of course this will result in the account holder facing higher bills and would mean that the account holder needs to manually submit meter readings to their supplier.

I hope that this clarifies the situation and look forward to the prompt return of my deposit. I do hope it will be possible to avoid the hassle that will inevitably be caused if I am forced to seek a return of the deposit through the tenancy deposit scheme or through the county courts.

Yours sincerely

Tenant

casper_g

missbunty wrote: »

...the LL stated they are not suffering any loss.

Did they state that in writing? They couldn't have made it much easier for the arbitrator/judge to find in your favour!

45002

moneyistooshorttomention wrote:

The landlord probably decided not to have a smart meter.

If you wanted one - then you should have asked - and I'm not at all surprised he's not very happy.

I suggest you find out whether he can have HIS meter (not yours!) changed back to a normal one and arrange to cover the cost of any inconvenience to him of the fact that you made HIS decision for him.

It may well be your right to choose your own supplier - but that does not mean its your right to choose to change the type of meter. Thanks to you - it's quite possible that anyone else in the future would have problems changing supplier. Add they may have read about the health hazards of them. Add they may not appreciate the privacy intrusion aspect of someone at the end of a computer screen elsewhere in the country being able to check on whether the amount of fuel being used at any given moment is consistent with the occupier being in.

I would be livid in his position.

Dont know what time warp your living in, but tenants can change utility suppliers and have a meter changed regardless of what a TA or LL says.

In the end if a LL tried to stop a utility suppliers from changing a meter for what ever reason they can in the end apply for a warrant, fit the meter and charge the person who stopped them the court, labour costs on on.


Good Evening







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Comms69

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

The landlord probably decided not to have a smart meter.

If you wanted one - then you should have asked - and I'm not at all surprised he's not very happy.

I suggest you find out whether he can have HIS meter (not yours!) changed back to a normal one and arrange to cover the cost of any inconvenience to him of the fact that you made HIS decision for him.

It may well be your right to choose your own supplier - but that does not mean its your right to choose to change the type of meter. Thanks to you - it's quite possible that anyone else in the future would have problems changing supplier. Add they may have read about the health hazards of them. Add they may not appreciate the privacy intrusion aspect of someone at the end of a computer screen elsewhere in the country being able to check on whether the amount of fuel being used at any given moment is consistent with the occupier being in.

I would be livid in his position.

It was never his meter...