told not to worry about payment and enjoy the day by the staff

harnas

Yes, i emailed the signed pdf as per the advice:)

harnas

hello all,

update - i got the case allocated. The letter called "notice of trial date" states that:
Unless the claimant does by (date time) pay to the court the trial fee of £25 or file a properly completed application for help with fees then the claim will be struck out (...)"

Whilst this is something that i am ok to pay and understand it's not refundable, how and when can i get it back after i win (I hope I will...)? Is this another claim that i have to go through?
(Seriously, I can see it's all set in a way that it is just simpler to pay the invoice...)

Also, the letter states about the evidence. I have only emails... not even sure if all as some info was provided via those Complain sites for fair review and at some point i was talking to them by phone - but that will be hard to track down when and for how long ...i am not even sure what my question to you is here - is email good enough for as an evidence?

KeithP

But you are not the Claimant, are you?
Why are you considering paying the trial fee?

You need to file and serve your Witness Statement and evidence by the date specified.
What is that date?
This is explained in detail in post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

Redx

Armtrac (KBT) are the claimant , not you , you are the defendant and pay nothing at all unless a judge says so

harnas

Thanks a lot!
... i got mixed up a bit on who the claimant is:D had a blank moment and thought it is me that claims my right to not be charged for the parking... so twisted when now think about it - thanks for straightening me up!
the date is 15 Nov so i have until 1st to provide the evidence according to the letter (not later than 14 days before the hearing). i want to do it asap.
I need to re-read the post2 on newbees, but is the witness statement same as the one i gave in defence (see above post #44/45)?

Umkomaas

I need to re-read the post2 on newbees, but is the witness statement same as the one i gave in defence (see above post #44/45)?

No, your WS is your personal account of the incident and any evidence you wish to submit in support.

There are a number of WS examples linked in the sticky, read these as a guide to layout and the sort of detail you should build into your own. They are not for a simple 'cut and paste'.

Post up your draft and see if anyone is available to critique.

Redx

You are doing the following 3 tasks for your 3 court bundles

Witness statement , you are witness 1
Exhibits (Evidence)
Costs schedule

One for your nominated court
One to the claimant or their solicitors
One to take with you in November

harnas

...still in process of doing the witness statement (got too busy with work and had to prioritise even if that means fail...)
just received their witness statement and got spooked a bit (not haloween related! and probably means they know what they are doing...).
there is few sections there and first part is quite standard copy paste. it goes on to some facts about the process etc (not fully but ok in general from my poin of view) then they go against what i said in the defence tackling certain sections.
1. they call out my defence as template generic defence, a copy paste therefore not meritorious and internet harvested information questioning my statement of truth... - I believe my statement is true based on the information gained, mostly on this page and reading out certain cases. I am not sure how to stand up to that though...

2. my response about having no card and talking to PA (I guess it's parking assistant or something) and they say this cannot be proven - true, but i tried to get this clarified so this is the only defence i have here.

3. that i allege that they are known for its predator pcn and fraudulent conduct - they deny as i didnt provide facts making basic allegations

4. about beavis case (which they also quote at some point - some words i cannot understand fully:
"the crux of the cases and the principle established in parking eye v beavis is entirely relevant to this claim. any attempted distinction upon the facts is irrelevant, as this would clearly apply to all matters aside from contraventions that took place in the same car park as in parking eye v beavis". Not only i am not sure what that means, i do not know the specifics of the case well enough to fight it back..

5. that i claim they have no authority from the land owners to issue pcn and bring court actions - they submit the agreement between landlord and them that they have...

6. something about disproportionate and that i state that no solicitors has supervised the claim and no solicitor has signed the forms - it was signed BW legal... so that's clear. even the cover note is signed this way. they refer back to Beavis case that court considered PCN charges (like this one) legitimate and that code of practice states that £100 is reasonable. and lays out the rest of the costs - total summs up to £260+

some other cases are mentioned:

about the formation of contract - something about entering property where contract is provided that it is fair enough - Vechicle Control Services Limited v Alfred Charles Crutchley (2017) - fair enough i agree, my contract was breached imo...

quotes the IPC Accredited Operator Code of Practie about about the charge of 60 for recovery costs - and quotes Chaplair Limited V Kumari 2015 WCA civ 798 - again a lot of geebrish i am not familiar with.... not sure if you want the details here as i do not want to pay at all, and not argue about the amount.

then it has some of my emails etc but doesnt have full picture that i will try to provide with my witness statement.
not sure what should with this....

also, as just now started to "work" on my witness statement, it seems i have a lot to dig in terms of the cases and exact quotes of what i am referring too....

I think i read somewhere in the forums that response by email counts - is this correct? can i send my WS to BW by email and also to the court?

thanks a lot! (i hope the above makes some sense - adrenaline is rushing at the moment... and sorry for lack of punctuation, misspellings etc, for the same reason;) )

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for the word meritorious (or does that template letter say 'unmeritorious'?) and you will find this is all a template and they do NOT know what they are doing, nor do they care as long as some numpties get spooked and pay.

We've seen all this before and it is not specially written for your case.

Fruitcake

harnas wrote: »

...still in process of doing the witness statement (got too busy with work and had to prioritise even if that means fail...)
just received their witness statement and got spooked a bit (not haloween related! and probably means they know what they are doing...).
there is few sections there and first part is quite standard copy paste. it goes on to some facts about the process etc (not fully but ok in general from my poin of view) then they go against what i said in the defence tackling certain sections.

1. they call out my defence as template generic defence, a copy paste therefore not meritorious and internet harvested information questioning my statement of truth... - I believe my statement is true based on the information gained, mostly on this page and reading out certain cases. I am not sure how to stand up to that though...

So what? A lay person using the internet to glean information is a perfectly acceptable method to glean information. It is allowed by the court so what is the problem?
You know what happened on the day, so you know it to be true. You found the other information yourself, cross checked it with several other sources, so you believe it to be true.

Quote sources if you can, including our MP's comments in open parliament.

harnas wrote: »

2. my response about having no card and talking to PA (I guess it's parking assistant or something) and they say this cannot be proven - true, but i tried to get this clarified so this is the only defence i have here.

Conversely, they cannot prove that it is not true. The judge will decide on the balance of probabilities. A fraction over 50% either way is all that is needed. You just need to make sure your version of events is the more credible. Were there any witnesses to this interaction? Can you remember the scamtendant's name?

If they want to dispute your statement they should call the scamtendant as a witness. Ask them to do this and mention/question it in court if they refuse.
Ask to see his/her notes from the day, and again question why they have not been provided if they refuse.

harnas wrote: »

3. that i allege that they are known for its predator pcn and fraudulent conduct - they deny as i didnt provide facts making basic allegations.

Similar to the comments I made about point 1. You did research and found out how they act. Produce a list of threads/websites if you can where they have shown how unreasonable they are.

harnas wrote: »

4. about beavis case (which they also quote at some point - some words i cannot understand fully:
"the crux of the cases and the principle established in parking eye v beavis is entirely relevant to this claim. any attempted distinction upon the facts is irrelevant, as this would clearly apply to all matters aside from contraventions that took place in the same car park as in parking eye v beavis". Not only i am not sure what that means, i do not know the specifics of the case well enough to fight it back..

The same type of car park … In other words, if it was not an overstay in a free car park on a retail park then it can be distinguished from the Beavis case.

harnas wrote: »

5. that i claim they have no authority from the land owners to issue pcn and bring court actions - they submit the agreement between landlord and them that they have...

Is it a contract between the landowner and the scammers as opposed to an agent of the landowner and the scammers? Does the contract flow from the landowner to the scammers? Is the landlord the landowner? Are there two signatures from each party, or a director's signature and witness as per the requirements of the Companies Act?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44

harnas wrote: »

6. something about disproportionate and that i state that no solicitors has supervised the claim and no solicitor has signed the forms - it was signed BW legal... so that's clear. even the cover note is signed this way. they refer back to Beavis case that court considered PCN charges (like this one) legitimate and that code of practice states that £100 is reasonable. and lays out the rest of the costs - total summs up to £260+

They have not addressed the point that the letters have not been signed by a named legally qualified person, just a company name. One of the more legally minded regulars should be able to tell you what code/regulation this breaches.

See beamerguy's "abuse of process" thread that deals with fake add on charges. The Beavis case they helpfully mention capped the charges at the PCN amount itself. The only thing they can add is court fees etcetera. They cannot add on any processing charges or debt collection fees because they are included in the original charge that includes a large profit margin.

harnas wrote: »

some other cases are mentioned:

about the formation of contract - something about entering property where contract is provided that it is fair enough - Vechicle Control Services Limited v Alfred Charles Crutchley (2017) - fair enough i agree, my contract was breached imo...

The sign is the contract, but I believe there was a frustration of contract in that you were prevented from complying with the terms on the express instructions of a scumpany representative.

harnas wrote: »

quotes the IPC Accredited Operator Code of Practie about about the charge of 60 for recovery costs - and quotes Chaplair Limited V Kumari 2015 WCA civ 798 - again a lot of geebrish i am not familiar with.... not sure if you want the details here as i do not want to pay at all, and not argue about the amount.

Again, see beamerguy's "abuse of process" thread that deals with fake add on charges.

harnas wrote: »

then it has some of my emails etc but doesnt have full picture that i will try to provide with my witness statement.
not sure what should with this....

also, as just now started to "work" on my witness statement, it seems i have a lot to dig in terms of the cases and exact quotes of what i am referring too....

I think i read somewhere in the forums that response by email counts - is this correct? can i send my WS to BW by email and also to the court?

thanks a lot! (i hope the above makes some sense - adrenaline is rushing at the moment... and sorry for lack of punctuation, misspellings etc, for the same reason;) )

Your WS is a sort of narrative of what happened on the day, and what has happened since. Some of it can be cribbed from your original post where you mention talking to the scamtendant.

bargepole's guide to court tells you how and when to submit WS etcetera, so use whatever method it tells you to do in that thread.