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told not to worry about payment and enjoy the day by the staff

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
125 replies 5.5K views
harnasharnas Forumite
58 Posts
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
Greetings to all!
So, as many here, I made a mistake of trying to be compliant to the "rules" and appealed via IAS and got the appeal dismissed -just then found this forum. I thought my case is simple enough and will be looked at with some reason so, as it was true, I admitted to everything, including being the driver and not displaying the ticket.
The reason I didn't pay and display was that i was told not to do it by the staff - security person, whom i asked for a change (as had only notes and card). He told me not to worry and enjoy the day with my daughter, and I was fool to trust him, but thought it was a private parking and person that represents this parking is just being nice and for sure can decide on such things. I was in rush and thankful for the help, but I asked him twice if he is sure. When i got back, the ticket was on the car.
I appealed, gave all details and asked for securing the cctv footage that would support my statement - I was going back and forward on the parking lot to find ways to pay, in rush with my child, until talking to the security in his car - at that time I didn't know he is the staff, thought it was a private person, asked for change but he didnt have any, he chased me few minutes after that, seeing me still struggling to pay, all would be seen on the footage, if I had it). In the appeal response I was told that the cctv doesn't belong to the company that secures the car park and that the staff is not able to make decisions on who pays and who doesn't, and that is up to the landlord (although signs state that it is managed and operated by that company). I asked for the details of the cctv company which was refused, and for landlord involvement which was left unanswered.

My question is should i just pay the fine or wait for court? I feel strong this was unfair treatment refusing me the evidence supporting my case, or even reviewing it.
Should i contact the company informing them that i will not pay, if that's the case? (they indicated i have 14 days to do so)

thanks a lot!
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Replies

  • SystemSystem Forumite
    177.9K Posts
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    I asked for the details of the cctv company

    Talk to the local council to see if there has been an planning application. If not see if it should be reported for a breach of planning.

    If you do find out who has CCTV you can get it from a Subject Access Request

    See https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/cctv/

    IMHO you throw as much s**t their way as you can.
  • harnasharnas Forumite
    58 Posts
    THanks IamEmanresu, I will check that but the place is far from where i live and this was over 2 months ago so I am afraid that this evidence may be gone. I requested for it from the very start and just wonder if i should just pay the fee after appeal was dismissed by IAS or should i seek justice in small court... not sure how convincing am I in the eyes of the law. In terms of peace of mind i would rather just pay but this all feel unfair and makes me angry as i feel to be tricked by the company.
  • QuentinQuentin Forumite
    40.4K Posts
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    You now are in the wait and see debt collectors stage. See #4 in thre newbies faq thread near the top of ghe forum


    Ignore everything except a lbcca or court correspondence - if that arrives use #2 of the FAQ for advice on defending a court claim
  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
    16.8K Posts
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    It is not a fine, it is a scam


    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the House of Commons recently

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41 recently.

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    He told me not to worry and enjoy the day with my daughter,
    As he will now be enjoying the bonus he earned from ticketing your car.

    It would help us advise you as to how this might go forward if you would be good enough to give us the name of the parking company.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • edited 1 August 2018 at 11:13AM
    harnasharnas Forumite
    58 Posts
    edited 1 August 2018 at 11:13AM
    Hello,
    I know they monitor this forum, and as red the newbie section didnt want to put the details in as it would be easy to find. But to be honest, I am asking for an advice and not trying to scam anyone, already acknowledged the fact I was the driver and also that i didnt display the ticket (due to the circumstances described). So the company is Armtrac and parking was in St Ives - I have seen some of the posts but none related to my case of being told not to worry and not to pay.

    My questions are still same to this forum .
    1. do i have a case for small court with this and have chance of winning or should I just pay (i can see everyone here advice me not to so far but would be good to be re-assured, regarding the circumstances.
    2. And if I should go to court instead of paying, should I contact Armtrac to say I will not pay and await for the trial. It was my first thought to do so but then I started to do the research and found this forum.

    thanks a lot for the answers!

    (Umkomaas, the reason I am so angry and willing to go to court, despite distress related to it, is that i thought it was a very nice gesture of someone that was there, seen me try to pay and somehow struggle with a toddler, and then came with an offer of not paying. I should think twice, feel like a fool and will not trust again of course but I just took the offer blindly as knew it's a private property, not council parking).
  • UmkomaasUmkomaas Forumite
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    1. do i have a case for small court with this and have chance of winning or should I just pay (i can see everyone here advice me not to so far but would be good to be re-assured, regarding the circumstances.
    There's an assumption on your part that they will proceed to court, not every parking case ends up in court. Chances of winning depend on the strength of your defence against the PPC's Claim. Even then Judges can make astonishing decisions - either way.

    It's impossible to give you the categoric assurance you seem to be seeking, other than to say that when this forum assists people in defending a case through to the hearing, wins far outnumber losses.

    Armtrac are mildly litigious, but not rabidly so.

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/KBT_Cornwall.html
    2. And if I should go to court instead of paying, should I contact Armtrac to say I will not pay and await for the trial. It was my first thought to do so but then I started to do the research and found this forum.
    Depends on your 'constitution'. You can either stick two fingers up to them and tell them you're not paying a bean and 'See you in court!', goading them and see who blinks first, or you can just sit back, wait, and check out their next move. So either punch them on the nose, or play a game of chess with them. Only you know which you might be better at.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • harnasharnas Forumite
    58 Posts
    Thanks again Umkomaas. I think I am more of the punch them on the nose, than sit and wait. I'd rather to have this done here and now than sit and hope for no action for next years to come... but punching is not always the best and that's why I am looking for ideas and opinions...

    Just to contribute back to the forum I checked the court fees and it is far different than what it states in PCN from private companies (mine was talking about hundreds of pounds of possible additional costs). Please see below and also feel free to copy paste anywhere as i am not sure where to put this so everyone can access easily.
    (I am not allowed to post links, as I am new user, so this is requires copy/paste and removing of some spaces )

    Info on small court claim for money fees (and general info on the process) - www. gov. uk/ make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

    General info on court fees www. gov. uk/ court-fees-what-they-are

    It is far from "hundreds" on cases like this (unless I am wrong, to which please correct me!)
  • harnasharnas Forumite
    58 Posts
    Hi again,

    This is a quick question just to clarify as I am not sure if what I got is LBCCC/LBA letter or just titled in a way that meant to provoke an action.
    The letter is from Armtrac with big red: "FINAL LETTER BEFORE DEBT RECOVERY OR COURT ACTION"
    It states I should pay or may incur additional costs e.g. like solicitors fee (Gladstones).

    Thanks
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    harnas wrote: »
    Hi again,

    This is a quick question just to clarify as I am not sure if what I got is LBCCC/LBA letter or just titled in a way that meant to provoke an action.
    The letter is from Armtrac with big red: "FINAL LETTER BEFORE DEBT RECOVERY OR COURT ACTION"
    It states I should pay or may incur additional costs e.g. like solicitors fee (Gladstones).

    Thanks
    There's a big clue in there.

    It's from the PPC threatening that they may pass this to their solicitors.

    Note the word 'may'.

    This is not a Letter Before Claim, just another threatening letter.

    Did they give you 30 days to respond?
    If not, then that's another clu that it isn't a compliant LBC.

    Ignore.
This discussion has been closed.