Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Ballard

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So let me get this right. You are happy about the fact that the eu has leapt from being a common market to a fledglng superstate without our say so, with them refusing to allow anyone a vote and hoping that we won't notice until we lose all independance, but you don't think the PM should be able to disentangle the country from the grasping claws of the eu without having the negotiate the way around the self-entitled remainers in Parliament and in The Lords.

Can you imagine how unbearable fish face would be if SNP votes managed to scupper our plans?

Our country could be so much more than it is, we do not need obstacles constantly being thrown under the hooves of the wonderful white stallion that is Brexit.

We elected members of parliament to act on our behalf. We retain the right to contact them at any point and give our point of view so had significant numbers of people done so about the EU then they would have had little choice to listen.

I really don’t see the argument for allowing a handful of MPs to ride roughshod over democracy. Being a ‘regaining our democracy’ is one of the cornerstones of Brexit I’m surprised that any Brexiteer disagrees with this.

ukcarper

The thing that baffles me is if all thes MPs are so convinced that leaving the EU will be an absolute disaster why hold referendum.

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

you can't find a quote from Cameron saying brexit would send us careening towards war.

you can't find a quote from Cameron saying brexit could send us careening towards war.

YOU MADE IT UP.

*Yawn*

1: I did not say anywhere "Cameron saying brexit would send us careening towards war".
Show me where I did?
Until you do show this forum those exact words said by myself that is your "YOU MADE IT UP." #1.

2: I did not say anywhere "Cameron saying brexit could send us careening towards war".
Show me where I did?
Until you do show this forum those exact words said by myself that is your "YOU MADE IT UP." #2.

3: Links have been posted saying just who reported what I originally said. Go look. I will even help you; post # 421
So again, links have been posted. That is your "YOU MADE IT UP." #3.
Ah.
So it is now obvious that you are the only one who is making things up.
(And I didn't find it necessary to shout it as you did, either.)

Read on from that post #421.
Filo25 tried the same tack but as I told that poster, "Hey, don't berate me for media coverage. It is what has been published in mainstream British media.
Look for yourself and berate the source, not the messenger please."
But you chose to ignore that and persist, long after the subject has been discussed to death with still no definitive outcome. As said earlier ( and this time YOU look for it ) "Attempting to deny that Armageddon was threatened if the UK dared to vote for Brexit has been done to death before and is as tired as the assertions of so many who continue to attempt to use old arguments to prove (or disprove) something that hasn't actually happened yet."


Interestingly you cling on to your mistaken perceptions yet don't even acknowledge the recent very similar stance taken by Lord Roberts.
Given posts like your recent refusals to accept the intended meanings behind what was said, one can only conclude that you think Project Fear-type propaganda referring to WWII is acceptable.
It is not.


Now instead of risking closure of yet another thread because of your misplaced dogmatism, why not move on and consider more-current debate?


Is Italy really heading towards crisis - and how will Italy's actions impact upon the EU?

Is Spain seeing a softening towards Catalonians and will we soon see a legal independence referendum?

Just a few "starters" as there is potentially much to discuss, rather than "old hat".

Ballard

ukcarper wrote: »

The thing that baffles me is if all thes MPs are so convinced that leaving the EU will be an absolute disaster why hold referendum.

Surely you realise that this was Cameron attempting to woo back the Tory voters from UKIP.

wunferall

ukcarper wrote: »

The thing that baffles me is if all thes MPs are so convinced that leaving the EU will be an absolute disaster why hold referendum.

Firstly it's not all the MP's.
Quite a sizeable number are pro-Brexit and we all know the better-known ones, don't we?
You only have to mention JRM to see loads of remainers start frothing for example.


Secondly, maybe it's because MP's are worried about their future income? Many of them have jobs outside of the HoP - and their "opinions" (being polite) are without doubt influenced by what their employer requires of them in their duties.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44675842

mayonnaise

cogito wrote: »

Said she with a sneer.

Does this help you to understand?

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/01/15/we-dont-exist-to-them-do-we-why-working-class-people-voted-for-brexit/

So because they're fed up with:

- UK government mandated austerity
- UK government failed housing policy
- UK government failed industrial policy
- and a UK state education system that leaves them unable to cope in an increasingly competitive world......

.....they voted to leave the EU.

Yep, makes sense.

wunferall

I thought I would leave you today with an interesting read in The Economist.

A good case to be made for the tedious procedures of the European Union is that they transmute inflammatory political arguments into technical matters to be smoothed away by anonymous, apolitical bureaucrats. Where countries once fought over resources or territory, their membership of a club with a common rulebook channels disputes into lengthy negotiations that result in communiqu!s nobody reads. Deathly dull, and perhaps a trifle undemocratic.

Too often in today’s Europe, acute problems are not dissolved by silvery diplomats but rather transformed into chronic ailments that remain bearable, until they are not.

https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/08/18/greeces-eight-year-odyssey-shows-the-flaws-of-the-eu

kabayiri

Ballard wrote: »

Regardless of her reasons for pushing the issue let’s also not forget that the result was the right one for democracy. We should never get into the position where a small group of MPs change something as massive as this without any recourse. That would be utterly undemocratic.

There were 2 people on LBC last night, both very much Remain types, and one made the point that the Gina Miller decision made it more difficult for May's government to avoid a No Deal exit, not easier.

I only caught the tail of it, so didn't establish why, but it's an interesting take.

What we have right now is some weird democracy, where essentially internal party politics are constraining the options and chewing out time.

kabayiri

lisyloo wrote: »

...
It's unlikely that migration has caused their housing issue.
Migrants in London are extremely efficient in their use of accomodation.
There are a number of other factors e.g. 2nd homes, lack of social housing, right to buy, lack of house building.


So yes, I sympathise and understand their concerns.
I don't think imigration is to blame or brexit will fix them.
But it does explain why people will vote against a system that doesn't serve their kind.

You see, I had the opportunity to analyse the data on housing. Tbh, I was frankly shocked and disappointed by the sheer number of outbuildings being used for dwellings. A majority of these substandard dwellings go to migrants, and the poor souls with limited English are also most likely to get the rough end of the deal.

Now, some might like this new UK. I do not. So, how do I register my discontent? Well...if I think that FOM is not helping, I vote against it, don't I?

Obviously, anybody else is entitled to decide differently.

kabayiri

Ballard wrote: »

Surely you realise that this was Cameron attempting to woo back the Tory voters from UKIP.

That doesn't answer UKcarper's question though.

Given UKIP vote was fairly concentrated, wouldn't a more regional approach work better to woo those voters back?