Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

That's not co-operating though; that's protectionism. Why not let an EU company tender if it can do a better job? We don't need to accept their bid if we have any valid reason not to. The government has a duty to do the best for the public above all (even if they are terrible at it).
...

Why do you think these EU companies run things better?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/apr/16/big-six-energy-suppliers-tax

Using utilities as an example, they certainly don't seem to be keen on paying much tax.

No UK government has put British interests at the top of the agenda for decades. That's why they have sold off everything from energy to tax offices. This has all happened whilst part of this glorious EU btw. Voters see through the fog after a while.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

Because none of you, your flag wavers, your cheerleaders, your foot stampers, your leaders, you or your spokespeople can respond with an answer in two years of trying.

It's a sad reflection of our times that logic and reason has been replaced by an angry nativism.

Arklight

Moby wrote: »

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities
.”

During the referendum and its aftermath a large number of polls were conducted which looked at public support for Brexit. Although many polls differed in terms of their estimated share of the vote for leave and remain they did tell a consistent story about which groups had voted leave. As with the aggregate analysis they found clear divides on age, education and ethnicity. Put simply, older, white and more economically insecure people with low levels of educational attainment were consistently more likely to vote for Brexit than younger people, degree-holders, minorities and the more secure middle- and upper-classes...

...People who feel ‘very strongly’ English were much more likely to say they would vote leave than anybody else (71 versus 36%) – and it was this narrow conception of national identity – rather than a broader sense of feeling ‘very strongly’ British that mattered most.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

This is a very interesting report Moby. I have re-linked it as it was rather drowned out a few a pages ago by Leave voters complaining it had hurt their feelings.

The history of the Right wing in British politics is a catalogue of poor people voting against their own interests. The more poorly educated someone is, the more likely they are either not to vote or to vote for the Tories.

Incidentally this is why the Tories have no intention of doing anything with public Education other than wrecking it through legislation and underfunding, and why the "educated elite" are usually the first stop in right wing witch hunts.

Every educated child is another likely future recruit for Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dems.

The nationalist Right, never comfortable understanding Britain's constitutional makeup, has now abandoned Britishness in favour of Englishness. With the recent polled hostility of English Tory voters to Scotland remaining in the Union, it seems likely that the United Kingdom will replace the European Union as the next bogeyman angling to take away their freedoms post Brexit.

In fact Scotland is a good target for them, as their progressive, inclusive and socialist culture with an emphasis on Education and internationalism, is summative of most of the things the English right despises, and it's been well advertised during the Indy-ref.

Hopefully this is a time bomb which will explode while the Conservatives, and their love affair with the ranker elements of their own supporters, are still in power as it will split their party.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

No UK government has put British interests at the top of the agenda for decades. That's why they have sold off everything from energy to tax offices. This has all happened whilst part of this glorious EU btw. Voters see through the fog after a while.

The UK prefers investing in property to holding long term investments in companies that generate weath unfortunately. Look at the household German names. Without exception all were involved in the war effort. Exist to this day still in German ownership. Different mindset.

Moby

kabayiri wrote: »

Why do you think these EU companies run things better?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/apr/16/big-six-energy-suppliers-tax

Using utilities as an example, they certainly don't seem to be keen on paying much tax.

No UK government has put British interests at the top of the agenda for decades. That's why they have sold off everything from energy to tax offices. This has all happened whilst part of this glorious EU btw. Voters see through the fog after a while.

Yes Labour has been saying this for years. The Govmt not the EU decides the ownership of energy, tax offices etc.

Moby

Arklight wrote: »

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

This is a very interesting report Moby. I have re-linked it as it was rather drowned out a few a pages ago by Leave voters complaining it had hurt their feelings.

The history of the Right wing in British politics is a catalogue of poor people voting against their own interests. The more poorly educated someone is, the more likely they are either not to vote or to vote for the Tories.

Incidentally this is why the Tories have no intention of doing anything with public Education other than wrecking it through legislation and underfunding, and why the "educated elite" are usually the first stop in right wing witch hunts.

Every educated child is another likely future recruit for Labour, the Greens and the Lib Dems.

The nationalist Right, never comfortable understanding Britain's constitutional makeup, has now abandoned Britishness in favour of Englishness. With the recent polled hostility of English Tory voters to Scotland remaining in the Union, it seems likely that the United Kingdom will replace the European Union as the next bogeyman angling to take away their freedoms post Brexit.

In fact Scotland is a good target for them, as their progressive, inclusive and socialist culture with an emphasis on Education and internationalism, is summative of most of the things the English right despises, and it's been well advertised during the Indy-ref.

Hopefully this is a time bomb which will explode while the Conservatives, and their love affair with the ranker elements of their own supporters, are still in power as it will split their party.

Agreed.....as you say nationalism always needs a bogeyman and it seems clear the strength of the United Kingdom is now at risk because of the growing threat of English nationalism. There are clear and growing faultlines between Scottish, Irish values, (DUP excepted) on the one side and English values on the other. Wales has always been more integrated and as the Labour Party is the establishment in Wales, the nationalist forces are less caustic.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

Agreed.....as you say nationalism always needs a bogeyman and it seems clear the strength of the United Kingdom is now at risk because of the growing threat of English nationalism. There are clear and growing faultlines between Scottish, Irish values, (DUP excepted) on the one side and English values on the other. Wales has always been more integrated and as the Labour Party is the establishment in Wales, the nationalist forces are less caustic.

The UK is just echoing the growth of right of centre politics across Europe.

In fact, we have quite a mild view of right wing politics, compared to the brand you find in somewhere like Poland.

The separatists in parts of Europe like Scotland are also Nationalists.

It's a failure of centre ground politics to deliver for large numbers of voters which has left the gap to be filled, I'm afraid.

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

That's not co-operating though; that's protectionism. Why not let an EU company tender if it can do a better job? We don't need to accept their bid if we have any valid reason not to. The government has a duty to do the best for the public above all (even if they are terrible at it).

That’s all very well if the playing field is level but if it's deliberately skewed so that a UK contractor cannot possibly win a contract for €1.5 bn, that is simply wrong. Probably the most absurd example was by the last Labour government framing terms of a rolling stock contract so that the only possible winner was Siemens at the expense of Bombardier and at the cost of 1400 British jobs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/8621498/Bombardier-had-little-chance-on-Thameslink-because-of-contract-terms.html

kabayiri

cogito wrote: »

That’s all very well if the playing field is level but if it's deliberately skewed so that a UK contractor cannot possibly win a contract for €1.5 bn, that is simply wrong. Probably the most absurd example was by the last Labour government framing terms of a rolling stock contract so that the only possible winner was Siemens at the expense of Bombardier and at the cost of 1400 British jobs.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/8621498/Bombardier-had-little-chance-on-Thameslink-because-of-contract-terms.html

Ahh yes, indeed.

That would be Labour's famous support for UK business then.

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK prefers investing in property to holding long term investments in companies that generate weath unfortunately. Look at the household German names. Without exception all were involved in the war effort. Exist to this day still in German ownership. Different mindset.

For several decades now, the politicians have embraced globalisation at the expense of British industry and all the skills and innovation that British people bought to this country for centuries. I saw this happen in my own industry, when in the 1980s successful small companies that had existed in some cases for a century or more were (very quickly, it seemed) sold off to big foreign corporations. Little support is given to small British companies, and there's this constant march to import everything from countries like China (whilst ignoring the working conditions of those engaged in producing goods in such countries, as well as their stance on environmental issues). You can see globalisation being promoted in the advertising/brainwashing that is so prevalent everywhere.

But what is going to happen to the growing number of people who should be working in this country? Automation is only going to intensify the problem. Humans need to be able to strive, like any species, and can't don't do so by sitting in front of a small screen and engaging in trivia. It cannot end well, and will eventually out itself in unrest, or worse.

How come individuals are being allowed to store huge wealth without paying taxes? Why are huge companies like Facebook being allowed not to pay their share of taxes? Why are wealthy individuals being allowed to break the law, affecting many 'little' people, without being properly penalised with long jail terms? Why are companies being allowed to 'share' the private data of citizens (while at the same time census data is suppressed for a hundred years in Britain)?

You don't appreciate what you've lost until it's gone, unfortunately (as some countries have found out, and only managed to extricate themselves from such a situation with great difficulty). There will be huge repercussions down the line due to the march of globalisation, which ultimately benefits the obscenely wealthy (and therefore powerful), with the biggest elbows, around the globe. They are generally people who don't give a hoot about the welfare of populations of countries. The politicians support them because they have a vested (I'd imagine financial) interest in doing so. I've never been so disillusioned with politicians as I am now. The expenses scandal pales into insignificance compared to politicians' behaviour now.