Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

andrewf75

kabayiri wrote: »

It's reality, not cop out.

I honestly can't say I am completely versed in the details of NI border living.

I don't pretend to have voted for those struggling with housing in Boston, Lincs either.

I can't second guess the nature of lorry delays which will occur in Kent either.

Etc, etc.

I just have to try and make the best decision, *at the time*, which is right for me/my family/my locality etc.

Do I think the referendum was flawed? Of course. I said as much at the time. Do I think the Conservatives were 'winging it'? Yes.

But...there's not an awful lot I can do about this, bar organising the mother of all revolutions.

With you on this. I didn’t want to leave but I fully accept the decision.

What angers me more now is the constant pretending that every group can get what they wanted. The government needs to grow a pair, choose the direction and be honest to those who won’t like it and deal with the problems thrown up.

You can almost forgive them for winging it 2 years ago, but not now.

Herzlos

I too wish we'd just get on with it, even if it's the wrong decision we can move forward, but the indecision is really a waste of time. I'd love it if May could just be honest about the outcome though, and get the upset over with, because again people will move on. But she & the Tories are holding onto power by such a narrow thread they can't afford to upset anyone.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Having waited 16 days for a set of mud flaps to arrive from Belgium for my new Mazda. JIT doesn't work as it's portrayed. Even with a seamless border. All about Company profit and returns to shareholders.

I don't imagine your mud flap delivery was a JIT issue, if you're buying it after the fact.
I'm curious as to why it took 16 days to arrive, since it'd have no customs stops and depending on the route doesn't even need to wait for a ship. I also wonder how much longer it'd take if we weren't in a customs union.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

Do you mean officially or in practice?

"Nearly half of all Brazilians in France live in the overseas region of French Guiana, including many who have crossed the 730 km border illegally."

Which seems like a pretty solid reason for having a hard border between Eire and NI (which is the controlling our borders Brexiteers want), or to maintain freedom of movement (which isn't).

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

There was no plan for our place in the EU.

Sure, there was an EU plan, for much tighter integration on many things, but it wasn't inspired by the UK.

Our support for FOM was luke warm. We have never built enough houses and other infrastructure since FOM has been in place, even when the credit lines were flowing before the GFC.

We have high levels of net migration for every year since the GFC, and yet at the same time, cuts to some councils equivalent to a third of their budget.

And then the politicians tell us that this is a net benefit. :mad:

I think voters smell b***s*** when they see it.

But they don't, they've been told over decades that the problem is the EU and it sending all it's foreigners over here, when by your own admittance the problem is with the UK not having the forsight to invest in infrastructure when it could, compounded by years of misguided austerity.


People voted for change, but there's no sign any of that change will come outside of the EU.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

What angers me more now is the constant pretending that every group can get what they wanted. The government needs to grow a pair, choose the direction and be honest to those who won’t like it and deal with the problems thrown up.

Rather than get angry. Take up yoga. I'm affronted by the waste of taxpayers money in the public sector. Having witnessed it firsthand. Little I can do directly.

No one is pretending anything. Remember even if a deal is struck. Spain could yet veto the whole deal to resolve the Gibralter issue. History is intwined with politics. No amount of ranting on Facebook and petitions for change. Is going to reverse the events of the past. Everybody is going to play their strongest hand to take advantage of the opportunity. We have no idea what the UK Government actually intends to do in terms of red lines. Remaining calm while being positive and constructive in talks is currently the best option.

Lungboy

Herzlos wrote: »

I also wonder how much longer it'd take if we weren't in a customs union.

Last year I had to send a piece of our research microscope to Switzerland to have a part made bespoke for it. When it was sent back from Switzerland it got stuck in customs hell, disappeared for months, got charged for the value of the part that was already ours, and finally returned to Switzerland. The chap drove half an hour to Germany, sent it from there and we had it 3 days later with no bill.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

But they don't, they've been told over decades that the problem is the EU and it sending all it's foreigners over here, when by your own admittance the problem is with the UK not having the forsight to invest in infrastructure when it could, compounded by years of misguided austerity.


People voted for change, but there's no sign any of that change will come outside of the EU.

Maybe the patience of voters ran out.

I probably wouldn't mind FOM if it was accompanied by some genuine long term policy to invest in transport and housing.

But, what we have had for the last 15 years, is stuff done on the cheap basically.

I think the British public are pretty tolerant on the whole, but when the authorities take the p*ss every year something will eventually break.

bugslet

Herzlos wrote: »

.
I'm curious as to why it took 16 days to arrive, since it'd have no customs stops and depending on the route doesn't even need to wait for a ship. I also wonder how much longer it'd take if we weren't in a customs union.

Customs in that case had nothing to do with the 16 days, nor the transport company;)

The way it worked in the late 80s when I did both Continental driving and customs paperwork when I came off the road, it took all of 5 minutes to raise a SAD doc for something simple like that.

As for timing if you were prepared to pay for a special delivery (and it was in stock of course), next day. Theoretically the same day if you happened to have someone in the right place at 08.00 looking for a backload to Thrugelmirtown.

However as no-one has a clue what the customs arrangements will be, it might be next day, next month......etc

andrewf75

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Rather than get angry. Take up yoga. I'm affronted by the waste of taxpayers money in the public sector. Having witnessed it firsthand. Little I can do directly.

No one is pretending anything. Remember even if a deal is struck. Spain could yet veto the whole deal to resolve the Gibralter issue. History is intwined with politics. No amount of ranting on Facebook and petitions for change. Is going to reverse the events of the past. Everybody is going to play their strongest hand to take advantage of the opportunity. We have no idea what the UK Government actually intends to do in terms of red lines. Remaining calm while being positive and constructive in talks is currently the best option.

Angry was probably a bit strong! It angers me within the context of the debate, it doesn’t keep me awake at night or enter my thoughts 95% of the day!
But you can’t be constructive in talks when you have a load of conflicting red lines. We’re not being constructive in talks! Yes I’m sure you’re right that the red lines won’t be kept, but then why issue them? That just means those who will be let down will be even more upset.

buglawton

Moby wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/how-tiny-moldova-s-brexit-grudge-could-cost-u-k-1-7-trillion
Yep going onto WTO terms is going to be so easy isn't it!

In 1965 Bloomberg would've said exactly the same sort of thing about Singapore when it split from a Malaysian economic and political union.
http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/history/events/dc1efe7a-8159-40b2-9244-cdb078755013

Guess which of the 2 entities economies has stagnated and which is now richer than the UK it's erstwhile colonial master?


(Clue: 60% higher GDP/person than the UK)