Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Joan_number_1_2

Moby wrote: »

The EU is not the cause of the African refugee crisis. ....

No?
So Angela Merkel didn't invite them then because no matter how you or anybody else tries to deny it, these migrants think she did.

Moby

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

No?
So Angela Merkel didn't invite them then because no matter how you or anybody else tries to deny it, these migrants think she did.

I think you are mistaking migrants for refugees. There is a war in Syria. What she did was compassionate and caring. Other people turned away due to cowardice or xenophobia. I will always respect her for what she did! Regarding the wider issue of economic migration I note you haven't answered what we will do to address this once we are outside the EU?

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

I think you are mistaking migrants for refugees. What she did was compassionate and caring. Other people turned away due to cowardice or xenophobia. I will always respect her for what she did!

I don't think it is and as far as I can see it did little for the vulnerable and cause more problems then in solved, I think in theory Cameron's approach of taking the vulnerable direct from camps was better the problem was it was not carried out with any real commitment.

Joan_number_1_2

Moby wrote: »

I think you are mistaking migrants for refugees. What she did was compassionate and caring. Other people turned away due to cowardice or xenophobia. I will always respect her for what she did!

But these people don't know that, no matter how you want to describe them.
Many German people certainly don't respect her for it, hence the rise of the AfD and Merkel's allies the CSU losing their majority in Bavaria for the first time since WWII.

Bavaria bore the brunt of the 2015 refugee crisis; at its peak, thousands of asylum seekers were crossing into the state every day. Since then, both Merkel and her CSU allies have been criticized for their management of the influx.

says CNN (and others) - and they're right.
In fact it is as a result of Merkels actions that there has been such a rise in populism across the EU.
So in effect you're showing your misplaced respect to Merkel for that.

Lungboy

A frank summary of what happens on Brexit day in pdf form from a twitter feed https://www.docdroid.net/m3YvOS5/brexit-truth-revised.pdf#page=4

cogito

Moby wrote: »

Everything you say above I agree with. The point is though is that their possible future accession to the EU is an aspiration which helps promote democracy in the region. What we know from history is that nationalist forces unfettered by international co-operation would make things infinitely worse.

For more perspective, here are some recent articles.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/05102018-eus-withdrawal-creating-domino-effect-across-balkans-analysis/

https://emerging-europe.com/voices/the-eus-re-engagement-with-the-western-balkans-losing-momentum-again/

https://europeanwesternbalkans.com/2018/10/16/twelve-proposals-western-balkans-enlargement/

As one of the articles says, the EU never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

I could mostly agree with the last article except that the countries involved want the EU to do twelve different things whilst they are silent on what they themselves need to do.

andrewf75

I would say it’s a bit of both the two previous posts (Moby/ukcarper)
She certainly meant well, but I think it was naiive in todays connected world to issue such an open invitation. I agree Cameron’s approach was right (feels a bit weird saying that!) and its such a shame that we weren’t more engaged in the EU – if we were we could have pushed for EU wide action along those lines.

cogito

Backbiter wrote: »

While there has been a lot of mudslinging, there's been tons of stuff highlighting the benefits of staying in the EU. It's true that a lot of it has been framed negatively, as in 'it'll be disastrous to throw away the membership deal we currently have', but the benefits are enormous.

Here's a few points I posted a while ago:

1 As EU members we are able to access the European Single Market which means we are able to sell unlimited products, and services made in the UK totally free of tariffs and duties.
This means that the UK can import parts and raw materials relatively cheaply keep cost of production low and it also means that UK made goods are competitively priced in the largest bloc of customers on the planet.
Combined, this makes the UK a great destination for UK and foreign manufacturers to invest and create British jobs, and help build the UK economy. Without this unlimited free trade, it is guaranteed that investment in the UK economy would slow down.
The UK has received over £1,000 billion (aka £1 trillion) of foreign investment into the UK economy from countries all around the world. A large portion of this is to build products in the UK to sell tariff free into the EU. Being in the EU gives us tariff-free access that leaving will bring to an end. This will make us poorer and cost jobs.
2. While we pay some £8 billion net each year, we get a significant amount back in farming subsidies and various grants to boost infrastructure in poorer area, and we get back at least £127 billion from trade.
I'm sure I don't need to reiterate the point that ending frictionless trade threatens to turn Kent into a car park, which will also hinder tourists' access to the EU and threatens food and medical supplies too, as I'm sure you're aware of that.
In my view, to throw all that away is a destructive act of insanity.

You last your argument when you said that we could sell unlimited services in the EU. Those pillars of the EU, France and Germany have ensured that we couldn't.

ukcarper

andrewf75 wrote: »

I would say it’s a bit of both the two previous posts (Moby/ukcarper)
She certainly meant well, but I think it was naiive in todays connected world to issue such an open invitation. I agree Cameron’s approach was right (feels a bit weird saying that!) and its such a shame that we weren’t more engaged in the EU – if we were we could have pushed for EU wide action along those lines.

From what I can tell it was a unilateral statement from Merkel and she did not have the agreement from other EU countries.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

I think you are mistaking migrants for refugees. There is a war in Syria. What she did was compassionate and caring. Other people turned away due to cowardice or xenophobia. I will always respect her for what she did! Regarding the wider issue of economic migration I note you haven't answered what we will do to address this once we are outside the EU?

We don't have to do anything.

Only Africa as a continent can solve the problems it faces.

The population will almost double to 2 BILLION in a generation or two.

That could quite easily mean 150 MILLION people who seek to move into Europe.

The idea that this could happen without major conflict is laughable.

Over this same timeframe, by the way, tens of millions of jobs will disappear across Europe due to technology.

Are you seeing a trend yet? Is it for more potential unrest or less?

I don't want to be tied into an EU which has lost control over migration.