Need advice on 'extras' we're being charged for fitting a bathroom

curiosity101

We're on day 2 of a 10 day refit of our bathroom.

Here is the quote we received, although it's missing a couple of bits including knocking out a none load bearing wall and installing a new radiator. We mentioned this upfront when we received the quote and they were happy the work was included even though it wasn't listed.

Plumbing & joinery.
-Dustsheet down & protect customer's property where possible.
-To take out the old & dispose of rubbish in the skip provided.
-Supply skip, priced for use on the drive. No permit required.
-To fit all supplies to the required positions & include isolation valves were appropriate.(For maintenance purposes)
-Fit suite to customer's specification as discussed to include the installation of a full suite. Supplied by the customer.
-Brick block window for new shower area as discussed.
-Block up old doorway & turn door round to open opposite way.
-Change soil stack as required for new toilet installation/position.
-Board floor in suitable tile insulation backer board as discussed.
-A/C doorway & new architraves as discussed.
-Second fix suite & silicone seal as required after tiling. (Dow corning 785 silicone)
-Supply all new materials were required to fit the above as discussed.
-Projects manage the installation with all that we supply/include.

Electrics.
-Supply & fit 4xLED down lights.
-Supply & fit an inline fan.
-Supply & fits witch.

Plastering.
-Overboard & skim ceiling to a plaster finish.
-Skim landing wall to a plaster finish.

Tiling.
-Fully tile walls in a ceramic tile to approx. 20SQM
-Tile the floor in a ceramic tile to approx.4 SQM.
-Supply adhesives, grouts & plastic tile trims to fit the above.

Your installation price & payments.
Bathroom installation &project management: £6912.00
For context the bathroom is 1.9m x 2.8m in size and we're based in the East Midlands.

We are supplying the suite + wastes + taps, and the tiles.

As far as I was concerned £6900 was an all in price to get the job done. (Baring in mind our last bathroom cost £2500 for everything including the suite, this one is costing £6900 + suite + tiles so about £9500).

So far the extras are:
- Dot and dab the walls ready for tiling cause the walls aren't perfectly straight, even though he did say they often aren't straight so this is what he'd expect (also they were tiled already...)
- Build up the floor because it isn't perfectly even, it's out by about 1cm from one end to the other. The bathroom is 2.8m long.
- Plumbing the suite in cause the pipes aren't where he expected them to be and he wanted to use 15mm even though we requested 22mm when we booked him
- A new door frame + fitting cause he had to take the old one out rather than just being able to turn it around in it's frame
- Supplying a radiator
- Raising the shower tray because there is a joist below where the waste would be

Does this sound reasonable? To me these should all be included as these should all be expected and were almost all visible (minus raising the shower tray cause there is no way I'd expect him to know there was a beam there). But when we're already paying £6900 it feels like that should be plenty to cover the 'unexpected'.
I've had plenty of extras tagged onto jobs in the past, and am normally happy to pay as they seem perfectly reasonable, but these just aren't sitting right with me.

Doozergirl

I don't think that's reasonable at all. I think all of that can be absolutely expected on a job.

There's a fair amount of work, but that is a high labour cost to start with. How much are they charging for these extras?

I think they're taking the proverbial. Who designed the room and suite? Where did you find them?

curiosity101

I don't know exactly how much they're charging for the extras yet, so thats a good question. Is it reasonable for me to ask him for a running itemised list of extra costs?

I designed the room and gave him access to the plans (full 3d and 2d plans in a PDF). We found the company via recommendations online. We did get 3 quotes and this was the highest but we were comfortable with it as it seemed like an 'all in' price.

Doozergirl

Extras should be agreed in writing beforehand. They can't just charge what they want.

What I'm particularly uncomfortable with is the shower tray. I've never had a situations where it has to be raised. You do need to buy a tray with the waste in the right place to accommodate (you can specify!), but even a restocking charge is better than the cost and look of raising it. This displays a lack of logic and experience to me - ie. project management.

It is you supplying the sanitaryware and tiles? I'm guessing this is why the waste is in the wrong place.

Doozergirl

How much were those others quotes?

I'm presuming we're still at rip out stage?

Silvertabby

Was it a quote - or an estimate? If quote, then that should have taken into account all of the 'extras' you listed, expected or not.

When we had our en-suite re-fitted the fitter rang his boss to say that he had a problem with the soil pipe. The boss announced that 'we don't have problems - we only have solutions' - and the answer was to completely re-fit the soil pipe. Matching the bricks to block up the old exit space caused a bit of head-scratching - until we remembered that we had a few matched bricks left over from the conservatory. Smiles all round - and no extra cost.

If you only had an estimate, however, then you need a revised price before deciding if you want to continue or not.

curiosity101

I guess we'll have to get on it asap with a list of costs. Surely I can't say no though? At the end of the day it 'needs' doing. It's just a question of whether it's extra? How should I handle it?

We are supplying the suite and tiles yes. If it makes any difference I did send him the links to everything I have bought prior to buying it and was given the all clear / thumbs up.

This is the shower we opted for:
http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/merlyn-ionic-essence-900mm-x-900mm-1-door-quadrant-left-hand.html
Shower tray:
http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/merlyn-mstone-900mm-shower-quadrant-tray-90mm-fast-flow-waste.html
And it has the option of a 'legs kit', to raise it up.

Yesterday they did almost 100% of the rip out. Today based on the pace they went at yesterday I'm guessing stud work and boarding will have been completed, as well as exterior brick work as he asked for another copy of the design which I'm assuming he wanted to create the new holes for the waste pipes.

I'll dig the other quotes out and drop them in here later.

curiosity101

Silvertabby wrote: »

Was it a quote - or an estimate? If quote, then that should have taken into account all of the 'extras' you listed, expected or not.

It's referred to as a quote in the PDF and also in emails. So quote I'd guess.

Doozergirl

I'd literally cry I'd bought that and someone told me it had to be raised. I just wouldn't have it.

Speak to builder Depot (or an independent plumbing merchant with a brain) and ask if they do trays with the waste elsewhere. You don't need matching brands of tray and door, you do need the waste to avoid.

For the price you're paying, this should all be dealt with but you've bought stuff separately and this is what you end up with.

I avoid quadrant showers so I don't know if you can buy with waste in different places, but I don't see why they wouldn't as I can get any combination of size and waste position when it's a quadrilateral tray and have NEVER had to raise a low threshold tray or failed to fit a wet room floor and we've done dozens of the things.

We just redid our bathroom (same size) and I got rid of our quadrant. We now have a properly plumbed in shower over a deep, massive bath with a really high quality folding screen that works perfectly. We also now have an 800mm wide basin unit and an awful lot of space in the room. It's much more luxurious.

Our great big teenager was complaining at loosing the shower but he took it all back when it was done.

Your quote is quite clear in "-To fit all supplies to the required positions & include isolation valves were appropriate.(For maintenance purposes)
-Fit suite to customer's specification as discussed to include the installation of a full suite. Supplied by the customer."

and "Supply all new materials were required to fit the above as discussed."

What does A/C mean about the door? A door lining is about £20. I reckon I could suck that up, especially as you've asked them to do a specific job. Anybody who has fitted any number of bathrooms should know what the risks are and account for them. You can't just add stuff on because it isn't a basic job. At that price, no one should be charging for a basic job.

I know it's scary, but you need to stand up to them a bit. Quoting to do as you instruct and then needing a bit of extra copper pipe because something isn't where you expected (I don't see how it could be anywhere other than expected, tbh) is not an extra. It's part and parcel of renovation.

I'm actually quite angry.

curiosity101

We did consider keeping the bath and shower together but I broke my back in September last year and you wouldn't believe how much I struggled to climb into the bath. I'm fully healed now but that scared me enough to want to have a walk in shower available from now on.

It's frustrating that we'll have to get a new tray. Annoyingly the only reason I didn't use a local merchant was because no single merchant carried the full list of products I wanted.

I'll double check what A/C means, I thought it meant adjust/correct but it wont hurt to check.

Oh and I dug the old quotes out over lunchtime, all were for the same work and for us to supply the suite, wastes, taps and tiles separately.
Independent sole trader - £5100
Independent sole trader £6300
Local family run business (the one we picked) - £6900

curiosity101

The latest update is that there is a steel and a joist where I wanted to sit the shower. So he reckons no matter what tray you get you're not going to be able to get around them. I'll take a look when I get home but it looks like we've just been rather unfortunate in this instance.