Tenants ending Tenancy, 30 days of 2 month notice?

cybervic

hi everyone,
I'm a bit confused about where are now, so need help with some clarification please.

We signed up a 6 month tenancy agreement and paid 6 month rent in advance with Letting Agent. We were told at the time that when the fixed term expires, it will automatically become a 6-monthly rolling contract unless Landlord agrees to give us a monthly-rolling contract (which I understand called Periodic Tenancy?).

The contract we signed stated "The Term of the Tenancy: 22/Jul/17 to 21/Jan/18.
On 5/Jan/18, LA asked if we want to renew contract, we said yes, but then a week later on 13/Jan, LA called back saying that Landlord is moving back so they will be serving us 2 month notice which we have to leave by 21/Mar.

My understand is that once we passed the fixed term end date, the contact becomes a Periodic Tenancy agreement so in theory we can give one 1 month notice. However, there are two complications,

The first one is, our periodic is not a Monthly but a 6-monthly rolling contract.

The second complication is that on tenancy agreement, it stated:
Termination of this Agreement: By not less than 2 months written notice* given by either
party to the other - such notice to be given by the Landlord in accordance with S21(4)
Housing Act 1988 as amended

*Not to expire within a fixed term or outside of a brake clause.
*Notice can only be deemed served in line with any rent due date and cannot be served 'mid-month'

so can we still give 1 month notice? or we just have to wait until 21/Mar? Where type of tenancy do we have between the 22/Jan - 21/Mar?

Thanks.

Comms69

cybervic wrote: »

hi everyone,
I'm a bit confused about where are now, so need help with some clarification please.

We signed up a 6 month tenancy agreement and paid 6 month rent in advance with Letting Agent. We were told at the time that when the fixed term expires, it will automatically become a 6-monthly rolling contract unless Landlord agrees to give us a monthly-rolling contract (which I understand called Periodic Tenancy?).

The contract we signed stated "The Term of the Tenancy: 22/Jul/17 to 21/Jan/18.
On 5/Jan/18, LA asked if we want to renew contract, we said yes, but then a week later on 13/Jan, LA called back saying that Landlord is moving back so they will be serving us 2 month notice which we have to leave by 21/Mar.

My understand is that once we passed the fixed term end date, the contact becomes a Periodic Tenancy agreement so in theory we can give one 1 month notice. However, there are two complications,

The first one is, our periodic is not a Monthly but a 6-monthly rolling contract.

The second complication is that on tenancy agreement, it stated:
Termination of this Agreement: By not less than 2 months written notice* given by either
party to the other - such notice to be given by the Landlord in accordance with S21(4)
Housing Act 1988 as amended

*Not to expire within a fixed term or outside of a brake clause.
*Notice can only be deemed served in line with any rent due date and cannot be served 'mid-month'

so can we still give 1 month notice? or we just have to wait until 21/Mar?

Thanks.

When do you want to leave?


Because if it's 21st Jan, you can do just that.

ThePants999

You haven't quite given us enough information to answer.

If the tenancy agreement is explicit about the terms following the end of the fixed period, then you have a contractual periodic tenancy after the 21st - in which case all your answers should be in the tenancy agreement!

If the tenancy agreement basically just talks about the fixed period, then if you're still there on the 22nd you instead have a statutory periodic tenancy, in which case you must give one rental period of notice (which is usually a month).

As Comms69 said, though, you also have the option of leaving on the 21st, no notice required whatsoever.

cybervic

comms69 wrote: »

When do you want to leave?


Because if it's 21st Jan, you can do just that.

Ideally, we want to leave asap, but they've give us very short notice that we could not have left on 21st, as we need at least 2-3 week for arranging removal, packing and finding somewhere to stay.

ThePants999 wrote: »

You haven't quite given us enough information to answer.

If the tenancy agreement is explicit about the terms following the end of the fixed period, then you have a contractual periodic tenancy after the 21st - in which case all your answers should be in the tenancy agreement!

If the tenancy agreement basically just talks about the fixed period, then if you're still there on the 22nd you instead have a statutory periodic tenancy, in which case you must give one rental period of notice (which is usually a month).

I always thought the tenancy agreement I signed is for the duration of my occapacy in the property? I will double check and see if the wording may be different.

Slithery

cybervic wrote: »

I always thought the tenancy agreement I signed is for the duration of my occapacy in the property? I will double check and see if the wording may be different.

It is, but it can also state what sort of periodic tenancy arises after the fixed term. Read...

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

cybervic

Slithery wrote: »

It is, but it can also state what sort of periodic tenancy arises after the fixed term. Read...

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

Thank you,
I just checked, the first page says This is an Assured Shorehold Tenancy Agreement, and no where in the contract says what happens after the fixed term ends.

The main terms of the agreement says:
Term of the Tenancy: 6 months from 22/Jul17 to 21/Jan/18
Rent Payable: £6000.00 6 monthly
Rent Due Date: The rent is to be paid until further notice in the following manner.
In cleared funds in Advance on 22nd of July and January of every applicable year

The bits that talks about serving notice are under section 7 FURTHER AGREED MATTERS and it says:

7(e) The Tenant and the Landlord may have need to serve notice on each other
Any notice served by the Tenant shall be deemed served on the Landlord at the following address using normal hand delivery when the notice will if served before 5pm be deemed served on the next working day or by first class post when the notice will be deemed served
two working days later. A working day does not include a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday.

Termination of this Agreement: By not less than 2 months written notice* given by either
party to the other - such notice to be given by the Landlord in accordance with S21(4)
Housing Act 1988 as amended
*Not to expire within a fixed term or outside of a brake clause.
*Notice can only be deemed served in line with any rent due date and cannot be served ‘mid-month'

I just noticed the last sentence "notice can only be deemed served in line with any rent due date..." Does this mean, they can only ask me to leave on 21/Jan or 22/Jul as the contract is written for 6-monthly rent?

We are in a process of buying a place so ideally staying until at least May or June would be good. However, now that we have to leave, we have to take up another 6 month tenancy elsewhere and we rather do it now so that we won't waste rent on month that we already in the new place.

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

....The contract we signed stated "The Term of the Tenancy: 22/Jul/17 to 21/Jan/18.
......

Ideally, we want to leave asap,

So leave on 21/1/18. Sorted.

If you stay till 22/1/18 you'll have a periodic tenancy.

Termination of this Agreement: By not less than 2 months written notice* given by either
party to the other - such notice to be given by the Landlord in accordance with S21(4)
Housing Act 1988 as amended
*Not to expire within a fixed term or outside of a brake clause.

Since this does not apply during the fixed term, then it follows that it applies in a subsequent periodic tenancy.

The presence of this clause makes clear that a Contractual Periodic Tenancy is intended to follow the fixed term.

Thus you must give 2 months notice as per the contract.

missile

You leave 21/01 or 21/03 or you can ask if LL will agree any other date.

cybervic

G_M wrote: »

So leave on 21/1/18. Sorted.

If you stay till 22/1/18 you'll have a periodic tenancy.

Since this does not apply during the fixed term, then it follows that it applies in a subsequent periodic tenancy.

The presence of this clause makes clear that a Contractual Periodic Tenancy is intended to follow the fixed term.

Thus you must give 2 months notice as per the contract.

Thanks. I thought this clause is intended for a situation when there is a breach of contract by landlord or tenants? It did not specify what it is for really, do I have any ground wanting to leave 2/3 weeks after FT ends or to give 1 month notice when we go to periodic tenancy (even when our periodic length is 6-month not monthly)? it's a big place and we aren't able to leave in few days time.

ThePants999

You can attempt to negotiate a leaving date with the landlord.

One thing that might play in your favour is that you don't have to leave by 21st March. Assuming they actually serve you notice, that'll be the date on which they can apply to a court for possession - a process which currently takes an average of 40 weeks. If your landlord wants to move back in, this will be unfortunate for them, a fact which you could perhaps use as leverage to agree the leaving date you want...

Comms69

ThePants999 wrote: »

You can attempt to negotiate a leaving date with the landlord.

One thing that might play in your favour is that you don't have to leave by 21st March. Assuming they actually serve you notice, that'll be the date on which they can apply to a court for possession - a process which currently takes an average of 40 weeks. If your landlord wants to move back in, this will be unfortunate for them, a fact which you could perhaps use as leverage to agree the leaving date you want...

I believe the 40 weeks includes the 2 months for s.21 - doesn't make that much difference in the grand scheme but worth noting