Tenants ending Tenancy, 30 days of 2 month notice?

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

Thanks. I thought this clause is intended for a situation when there is a breach of contract by landlord or tenants? It did not specify what it is for really, do I have any ground wanting to leave 2/3 weeks after FT ends or to give 1 month notice when we go to periodic tenancy (even when our periodic length is 6-month not monthly)? it's a big place and we aren't able to leave in few days time.

No.

No legal grounds to leave after 2/3 week at all.
No legal grounds to give 1 month notice at all.
You can, of course, agree anything you wish with the LL's consent.

Since your tenancy periods are 6 monthly, I assume your next rental payment of £6000 is due on 22 January.

You should hopefully get this refunded pro-rata when you give notice as per the contract, though this is not certain - rent is payable in fixed periods which are not divisible.

The law changed slightly recently, such that when a landlord gives notice, he must repay any rent paid in advance pro rata.

40 Repayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

After section 21B of the Housing Act 1988 insert—
“21C Repayment of rent where tenancy ends before end of a period

(1)A tenant under an assured shorthold tenancy of a dwelling-house in England is entitled to a repayment of rent from the landlord where—

(a)as a result of the service of a notice under section 21 the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy,

(b)the tenant has paid rent in advance for that period, and

(c)the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house for one or more whole days of that period.

Deregulation Act 2015

I would advise that you either

* leave and end the tenancy on 1st Jan, or
* negotiate, agree and sign a new contract on/before 21st, with new terms that make ending the tenancy easier eg ideally a Contractual Weekly Tenancy.

cybervic

Apologies for the other thread, My head was muddled and thought it was a Sec 21 Validity issue but I should have posted it here as some of you pointed out.

I wish we could just leave when FT expires, but we were expecting to continue the tenancy and we could not leave on/before 21/Jan.

So, Given that my rent is payable on a 6 month basis and I will have a 6-monthly periodic tenancy after Fix Term Expires. Can I argue that the sec21 they served was invalid given that :
- We were not given a current Gas Safety Certificate when it was renewed in Sep/17 (but we were given one at the beginning of tenancy.)
- The notice they served did not expire at the end of a "Period" (i.e. NOT ON or AFTER a further 6 months end date.)

If I pay 6 month rent in advance, and stay further 2 month After the S21 request leave date (i.e., 21/Mar). Am I still allow to claim back the excess pro-rata? If so, can LA/LL charge me for refund admin fee?

Also, it was LA who told me on the phone that I can give them 1 month notice and pay monthly if I don't like the 2 month notice. Obviously many of you helpful Mser already said that legally I can't do it (good thing I checked!). What would happen if I go along with their suggestion and let them accept my monthly payment? Will their acceptance of my payment means they allow me to have monthly periodic tenancy then.

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

So, Given that my rent is payable on a 6 month basis and I will have a 6-monthly periodic tenancy after Fix Term Expires. Can I argue that the sec21 they served was invalid given that :
Have they actually served a S21 as yet?
- We were not given a current Gas Safety Certificate when it was renewed in Sep/17 (but we were given one at the beginning of tenancy.)
Do have a current GSC - ie one that was issued within the last 12 months?
- The notice they served did not expire at the end of a "Period" (i.e. NOT ON or AFTER a further 6 months end date.)
provided it is 2 calender months it is valid (so far as the dates are concerned)

If I pay 6 month rent in advance, and stay further 2 month After the S21 request leave date (i.e., 21/Mar). Am I still allow to claim back the excess pro-rata? If so, can LA/LL charge me for refund admin fee?
Yes - see the Deregulation Act 2015 in my earlier post.
No - unless it is specified in the contract.

Also, it was LA who told me on the phone that I can give them 1 month notice and pay monthly if I don't like the 2 month notice. Obviously many of you helpful Mser already said that legally I can't do it (good thing I checked!). What would happen if I go along with their suggestion and let them accept my monthly payment? Will their acceptance of my payment means they allow me to have monthly periodic tenancy then.

I would get that offer confirmd in writing. As I said in my earlier post:

You can, of course, agree anything you wish with the LL's consent.

and

* negotiate, agree and sign a new contract on/before 21st, with new terms that make ending the tenancy easier eg ideally a Contractual Weekly Tenancy.

G_M

Apologies - I have just re-read the contract:

*Not to expire within a fixed term or outside of a brake clause.

This actually makes no sense, as a break clause (note spelling!) by definition only applies within a fixed term.

(it is a clause permitting the fixed term to be 'broken' ie ended early). Consequently:

* that condition can never be fulfilled, and
* the condition can not apply in a subsequent periodic tenancy (which would be "outside of a brake clause "

Hence my advice that a Contractual Periodic Tenancy follows the fixed term was erroneous (apologies) and instead a Statutory Periodic Tenancy arose instead.

The result of all this is that you cannot end the tenancy till the end of the next 6 month period unless (as explained) you do so by agreement - either agreeing an end date or agreeing new contract terms.

As an aside, the recent removal of the requirement for a landlord's S21 to align with tenancy periods seems grossly unfair, as demonstrated here.

cybervic

G_M wrote: »

Apologies - I have just re-read the contract:
This actually makes no sense, as a break clause (note spelling!) by definition only applies within a fixed term.

(it is a clause permitting the fixed term to be 'broken' ie ended early). Consequently:

* that condition can never be fulfilled, and
* the condition can not apply in a subsequent periodic tenancy (which would be "outside of a brake clause "

Hence my advice that a Contractual Periodic Tenancy follows the fixed term was erroneous (apologies) and instead a Statutory Periodic Tenancy arose instead.

The result of all this is that you cannot end the tenancy till the end of the next 6 month period unless (as explained) you do so by agreement - either agreeing an end date or agreeing new contract terms.

As an aside, the recent removal of the requirement for a landlord's S21 to align with tenancy periods seems grossly unfair, as demonstrated here.

Thank you so much everyone for taking time to read/reply all this , I have a worry soul and really appreciate it. I don't understand this fully though.
Is there any difference between Brake Clause and Break Clause? my contract which I upload here actually says "Brake", do I get any advantage for their spelling mistake?

What does it mean by "outside of a break clause"? are you saying "outside of a break clause" meaning "outside of Fixed-Term," therefore, can never be fulfilled for subsequent periodic tenancy? If so, what it to do with CPT/SPT?

It doesn't sound right nor fair that I could not have end the tenancy for another 6 month but the LA/LL can do it now with 2 month notice?

To answer your questions in Post15,
- Sec 21 was served on 13/Jan, asking me to leave AFTER 21/Mar/18.
- We were given a GSC when we sign the contract, it expires in Sep/17, we were not given a copy of the Latest GSC that was renewed in Sep/2017. I am hoping this could invalidate S21?

missile

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

Decide when you would like to vacate? Ask the LL if he will agree. He will most likely agree to a reasonable request.

G_M

missile wrote: »

You are making this unnecessarily complicated.

Decide when you would like to vacate? Ask the LL if he will agree. He will most likely agree to a reasonable request.

My fault - I'm being excessively legalistic. Though to be fair I've simply tried to answer questions the OP asked!

But yes:
* the landlord has served a S21 hence we assume he wants you to leave
* you also want to leave
The solution is therefore to discuss the timing and reach a compromise and then confirm in writing.

G_M

Is there any difference between Brake Clause and Break Clause? my contract which I upload here actually says "Brake", do I get any advantage for their spelling mistake?
There is no such thing as a 'brake clause' in a contract. this is a spelling misteeck.
But you get no advantage since it is obvious what is meant.

What does it mean by "outside of a break clause"? are you saying "outside of a break clause" meaning "outside of Fixed-Term," therefore, can never be fulfilled for subsequent periodic tenancy? If so, what it to do with CPT/SPT?
as explained already, a 'break clause' is a mechanism to break the fixed term of a contract.
The two months notice can only be used within a break clause. In other words, if, during the fixed term, you wish to end the tenancy using a break clause, you must give 2 months notice. The two months notice canot be used at any other time - only when using the break clause to break the fixed term early.


It doesn't sound right nor fair that I could not have end the tenancy for another 6 month but the LA/LL can do it now with 2 month notice?
Is that a statement or a question? But either way, yes.

To answer your questions in Post15,
- Sec 21 was served on 13/Jan, asking me to leave AFTER 21/Mar/18. dates are valid
- We were given a GSC when we sign the contract, it expires in Sep/17, we were not given a copy of the Latest GSC that was renewed in Sep/2017. I am hoping this could invalidate S21?

I don't know!

This S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?) (question 12) suggests that you have to have received a GSR. It does not mention what happens if the GSR runs out after 12 months but before the S21 is served, as here.

The Deregulation Act 2015 says the Landlord must give the tenant 'Prescribed Information' or a S21 Notice is invalid.

The regulation defining the 'Prescribed Information' says the landlord must give the tenant a GSR. Which it seems in this case he did. It does not say whether a S21 is invalid if the GSR is not kept up to date.

I suspect this is a case of the law being poorly drafted. How a judge would decide, if you challenged the S21 on these grounds, I don't know.

Anyone else got a view?

cybervic

We are buying and expect to move to new place May/June. Initially we wanted to give a month notice to avoid excess rental cost for next 6 month tenancy. Having learnt that S21 notice is not a legal eviction date and that staying put is more cost effective, we rather stay until May/June.

LA refused my request to stay longer. I then bypassed LA and made direct contact with LL, the initial reply was he isn't really able extend due moving back. I want to know where I stand legally before I start negotiating. I worry this 6-monthly periodic tenancy put us in a vulnerable position.

Thanks for the link on Regulation.
I found that the S21 Regulation 2.(1)(b) says LL/LA must comply with what set out in Gas Safety Regulation 36(6), which they must issue a copy to each existing tenant within 28 days of the check being completed,.

Our gas check was done in Sep/2017 but we have not been given the latest copy of GSR at all never mind 28 days. Assuming the current S21 is invalid, they will have to serve a new one (with a copy of GSR) which will be after 21/Jan (i.e. after FT ends). Does it now mean they can not ask me to leave for another 6 month?

ThePants999

The landlord can serve an S21 at any time after the fixed period. Tenancy periods are irrelevant to s21s. However, unless you told him in advance that his S21 was invalid (don't), he'd have to go all the way to court, you provide the defence, judge throws it out, then he has to fix the problem, serve you a new S21 and start the whole process again. So it would end up being longer than 6 months anyway!