Tenants ending Tenancy, 30 days of 2 month notice?

cybervic

I don't care about LA because they've been rubbish but not telling LL until last minute seems very cruel if they are making arrangement to move back. Is keeping quiet a common practice? Will it cost me court/solicitor fee if they take it to court?
I may be overthinking, but will I also be liable for LL's potential financial loss if I knew I am not going and I didn't tell him?



BTW, I just found anther info regarding GSR and Section 21 from RLA website which says
if an updated gas safety certificate is obtained during the course of the tenancy a copy of this must have been given to the tenant.


.

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

....

Thanks for the link on Regulation.
I found that the S21 Regulation 2.(1)(b) says LL/LA must comply with what set out in Gas Safety Regulation 36(6), which they must issue a copy to each existing tenant within 28 days of the check being completed,.

Our gas check was done in Sep/2017 but we have not been given the latest copy of GSR at all never mind 28 days. Assuming the current S21 is invalid, they will have to serve a new one (with a copy of GSR) which will be after 21/Jan (i.e. after FT ends). Does it now mean they can not ask me to leave for another 6 month?

Well read and thanks for clarifying that the law (on this occassion) actually makes sense!



If the landlord has refused to be flexible over the date he wants possession, you have several options:

1) leave when he wants you to on 21/3/18and find somewhere to stay
2) wait till 21/3, wait till you receive court papers, then challenge the S21 (eg no gas report), and LL will have to give you a gas report, serve a new S21, and wait another 2 months. If this hapens (ie you win in court) you will not have to pay court costs.
3) beware the LL might produce the September dated GSR in court and claim he sent you a copy. Who would the court believe (I don't know!). If the court believed the LL, he would get possession and you would probably have tto pay court costs.
4) are there other addditional grounds to challenge the S21? Did he use the correct form? Have you been through the S21 checklist I provided?
5) you could tell the LL now that you intend to challenge hs S21. He will then immediately give you the GSR and new S21, dated end of March.
6) you could still leave tomorrow.......

Your dilemma is that you want to be nice, and not ambush the LL in court in 2 months time, but the alternative is to warn him as per 5) above...... Since he has given no indication of being flexible, he is giving you no choice.

theartfullodger

You don't need agent or landlord agreement to remain. It's your legal right to. Simply stay, stop asking.

Even if s21 valid it does not end tenancy nor do you have to leave. Stay. Be friendly, polite to agent and landlord.

bris

Did the letting agent issue you with a S21 at the start of the tenancy? They can do this if they want you out of the property when the initial fixed term ends. If they haven't, until now issued you with one then doesn't the new period 6 months not need to be honoured making the s21 they have issued invalid?


It's different in Scotland but my understanding was that when it goes periodic it needs to be honoured, so you have another 6 months. That's why my leases state that the periodic period is month to month after the initial fixed term.

G_M

bris wrote: »

Did the letting agent issue you with a S21 at the start of the tenancy? They can do this if they want you out of the property when the initial fixed term ends.
No. They can't.
Any S21 issued within the first 4 months is invalid.
See the S21 validity checker in my earlier post!

If they haven't, until now issued you with one then doesn't the new period 6 months not need to be honoured making the s21 they have issued invalid?
No.
Assuming the S21 is issued after the first 4 months, and all the other S21 requirements are met (see the link), the LL can apply for possesssion.


.... my understanding was that when it goes periodic it needs to be honoured,
Correct. The S21 needs to be honoured.

so you have another 6 months. That's why my leases state that the periodic period is month to month after the initial fixed term.

Your leases don't need to state this. If rent is paid monthly, "the periodic period is month to month after the initial fixed" whatever the lease may say.

Similarly if rent is paid 6 monthly, th periodic period is 6 month to 6 month after the initial fixedagain, whatver the lease may say.

cybervic

theartfullodger wrote: »

You don't need agent or landlord agreement to remain. It's your legal right to.

Thanks, it just feels strange. I will try to remember it's my right.

G_M wrote: »

3) beware the LL might produce the September dated GSR in court and claim he sent you a copy. Who would the court believe (I don't know!).

5) you could tell the LL now that you intend to challenge hs S21. He will then immediately give you the GSR and new S21, dated end of March.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If LA wants to claim they had sent me a copy then they have to provide prove (like proof of posting)?

How about I will let LL know that we are seeking legal advice and will decide out next move in due course, (not saying anything to LA though!) keeping it vague maybe he has time to be prepared?


In addition to all this, we have received this from LA this afternoon, they are working hard on Sat!



I find it rather scary they used the wording "Need to Vacate the property on 21/March." Should I be prepared to lose "missed appointment fee" for not returning keys?

It was established earlier in the post I have a 6-monthly Periodic tenancy after FT, the letter now stated my final rent is due on 22/Feb. Does this mean I am on monthly periodic so I don't need to pay 6 month rent in advance?

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If LA wants to claim they had sent me a copy then they have to provide prove (like proof of posting)?
The landlord has to convince the court he sent it. You have to convince the court he did not.
Proof of posting would certainly help him, but is not a requirement. He might refer to his strict adherance to other requirements and say "I had the inspection done - why would I not send the report?"
He might have a spreadsheet he keeps of actions relating to this property (and other properties he rents out), recording the dates he does things, showing a date in Sept when he sent it.

The court will simply decide who they find most believable.

How about I will let LL know that we are seeking legal advice and will decide out next move in due course, (not saying anything to LA though!) keeping it vague maybe he has time to be prepared?4
Why?
Either tell him you intend to challange his S21, or keep silent..

In addition to all this, we have received this from LA this afternoon, they are working hard on Sat!



I find it rather scary they used the wording "Need to Vacate the property on 21/March." Should I be prepared to lose "missed appointment fee" for not returning keys?
Ignore. Do not reply.
If you don't leave, the tenancy continues, the key need not be returned, no inspection is required, so no fee can be charged.

this is scare tactics. Since you now understand your rights, you need not be scared.

It was established earlier in the post I have a 6-monthly Periodic tenancy after FT, the letter now stated my final rent is due on 22/Feb. Does this mean I am on monthly periodic so I don't need to pay 6 month rent in advance?

Well, that is a good question!

I suspect the agent has either not read the tenancy agreement, or has not understood it.

Why not pay one months rent (ie £6000/12 = £500) on 22nd Jan and see what happens? Perhaps also send a letter saying you have now paid your monthly rent. If no one demands the other £5,500, then pay another £500 on 22nd Feb.

I think that might well establish that you have now moved to a monthly periodic tenancy!

cybervic

G_M wrote: »

Why?
Either tell him you intend to challange his S21, or keep silent..

His first email reply offered a week extension, I want to reply him (being polite) and I wouldn't know how to negotiate without mentioning we may not leaving on 21/Mar.

G_M wrote: »

If you don't leave, the tenancy continues, the key need not be returned, no inspection is required, so no fee can be charged.
this is scare tactics. Since you now understand your rights, you need not be scared.

The agent's website set out the many fees including the one stated and the TA says tenants agree with all those fees. Do I have any right to deny those charges?

G_M

cybervic wrote: »

His first email reply offered a week extension, I want to reply him (being polite) and I wouldn't know how to negotiate without mentioning we may not leaving on 21/Mar.

So why not wait a bit? eg till mid Feb?

Then explain a week will make little difference and you will need longer. Let him know you are keen to agree a date amicably - no need to mention the possbility of staying anyway. He should be aware anyway of the possibility since he should know about tenants' rights.

By then also you'll know if he is accepting monthly payments, in which case you're in a better position to serve your own notice.



The agent's website set out the many fees including the one stated and the TA says tenants agree with all those fees. Do I have any right to deny those charges?

The £75 fee you referred to is a 'missed appointment fee'. In this case appointment for a check out inspection. If you don't leave, and inform the agency you are still there then a check out inspection is not required so no apointtment can be missed.

cybervic

I've replied LL and arranged a month rent payment to be sent tomorrow, all as advised. Thanks.

I'm now trying to work out an EARLIEST possible date that we have to leave. Assuming LL/LA uses Accelerated Procession Proceeding, is the following estimate timescale reasonable? Do I challenge Section 21 in my reply during process 3, thus adding another 14 days for court hearing?

S21 expire date: 21/Mar
1. LL/LA File court Claim, +1
2. Court Issue Claim, +7
3. Tenants Reply, +14
4. Procession order Granted, +7
5. Date of Procession, +14
6. Bailiff Application, +1
7. Bali Warrant Granted, +14
8. Bailiff Coming, +14, (30/May.)