Going with Bonkers The Pedigree Pooch or Muttley The Unloved Runt ?

Murphy_The_Cat

DairyQueen wrote: »

The FTSE All Share only covers the UK market (ex small cap). The UK is around 5% of global markets. Your Bonkers funds are all ex UK (so far).

The FTSE All-World or the MSCI World are the indices most commonly benchmarked by global funds and portfolios (and best practice suggests that every portfolio should be globally invested). Any chance you could do a like-for-like comparison over each 6-month period against either of those?

You will be much further down against those indices. Especially as the world's biggest market (the US at 50%+) has performed so strongly over the last, few years.

I guess I'm playing devil's advocate.

The Bonkers approach may be a fun dabble for a peripheral investment on a large-ish portfolio, but any novice reading the thread should see how it compares to holding a 'lock-up and leave', globally diversified fund. Perhaps a comparison to (say) the performance of a single global fund - any of the usual passives will do: Vanguard, Blackrock, HSBC, L&G?
.

I'll use Vanguard Life Strategy 80 as that seems to be a constant favourite on MSE

aroominyork wrote: »

Brazil is up for me 9.75%, but it shoulda coulda been more... I put through a switch order on 27 December (selling Baillie Gifford American) and despite the Brazilian stock market being open on 27 and 28 December it did not buy until 2 January when the price was over 7% higher than on 27 December. I'm not sure that trading over Xmas/New Year is a great idea so I'm thinking of changing my switch dates to the end of January and July.

I've just rechecked my transactions and I can see that mine completed on 3rd Jan.
I'll be puting my next transaction through on 28.06.19 and it'll be July before it completes.

JohnRo

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

I'll use Vanguard Life Strategy 80

VLS80 is not a global equity tracker, still heavy on UK and has 20% of it's allocation to UK bonds iirc.

VWRL or similar surely?

Murphy_The_Cat

DQ, is this what you mean ?


My original £1000 investment is currently worth £930.76, if I'd invested it with VLS 80 it would now be worth about £1085.
I'm struggling to get the exact %'s showing for 18months.
So Bonkers has me down about 7% and VLS80 would have had me up about 8.5%


As an aside, if I'd left my money in the original fund, I'd be down about 7% as well.


I'll do the figures properly after the weekend

Murphy_The_Cat

JohnRo wrote: »

VLS80 is not a global equity tracker, still heavy on UK and has 20% of it's allocation to UK bonds iirc.

VWRL or similar surely?

I was going to use vls100, but 80 seems to be more popular, so used that one instead.
I'll happily pop on vls100 as well if its useful for folks.


Does HSBC FTSE All World Index fund hit the spot ?


Updated for the new selections
My £1000 is now worth £930.76
With VLS 80 (about) £1085
With VLS 100 (about) £1092
With HSBC FTSE All World Index (about) £1185


I'm having to use "about" as I'm struggling to find somewhere that will give me accurate 18 month figures. Do you have any pointers where I can find an accurate 18month figure ?




All will be updated properly after the weekend

JohnRo

Have you tried googlesheets with google finance?

I know there are some issues with tickers producing n/a results but apparently that can be overcome by copying a sheet displaying n/a errors to a new sheet.

I'll have a quick mess about and see what's available.

JohnRo

I've looked into it and can scrape yahoo finance for prices in google sheets but it's all very convoluted, apparently googlefinance is just not reliable any more. I haven't used google sheets for quite some time, longer than I thought.

Looking at the numbers you've used above you're using just the start date price for the benchmark returns, you don't appear to be taking any account of the dividend payments received.

That data can be obtained from Yahoo with historical price data that's adjusted for dividends and any stock splits. Problem I encountered is that for VWRL those historic yahoo numbers appear flawed.

Easiest thing is perhaps to obtain the starting benchmark prices, work out the quantities and plug the values into a trustnet portfolio.

LobsterMemory

If, during the several years I ran a model portfolio on ADVFN, someone had said, "Could you benchmark it against something. No, not that, something else", I'd have said something like, "Hey, I'm already putting the work in off my own bat, how about someone else e.g. you do the benchmarking?"

Except, because it was on ADVFN, I'd have said it in swear words.

DairyQueen

Agree with JohnRo. VWRL tracks the FTSE World.

In the accumulation phase of investment (i.e. <10 years to retirement) I would expect most folk to be 100% equities. Of course, appetite for risk enters the equation but Bonkers is high risk so let's assume that 100% equity is reasonable. VLS80 gives up some of the long-term, equity gains in exchange for the slightly lower volatility provided by the 20% bond allocation.

I understand the issue with the 18 month performance. As this shouldn't be an onerous task for you, howzabout if you just introduce the comparison over the last 12 months, and then continue every 6 months going forward? After all, this is supposed to be a fun exercise and tbh I think you will be doing lots of people a big favour by demonstrating the benefits of:
- diversification
- infrequent trading
- not selecting a regional, etc. targeted fund based only on recent performance
- blah de blah.

It's an interesting thread and thanks for the contribution.

JohnRo

I'm happy to post the benchmarking data if it helps, it's really not a difficult task.

The only issues are around obtaining a reliable stock price and dividend payment data source, then how they are to be treated.

ie. bench capital excluding dividends, capital & reinvested dividends or capital & dividends paid away.

Yahoo's stock split and dividend adjusted prices are for dividends paid away afaict.

Trustnet's data is opaque but they do have a current capital value that either includes or excludes dividend reinvestment.

I also think it is an interesting thread, at the very least as a cautionary tale.

Murphy_The_Cat

JohnRo wrote: »

I've looked into it and can scrape yahoo finance for prices in google sheets but it's all very convoluted, apparently googlefinance is just not reliable any more. I haven't used google sheets for quite some time, longer than I thought.

Looking at the numbers you've used above you're using just the start date price for the benchmark returns, you don't appear to be taking any account of the dividend payments received.

That data can be obtained from Yahoo with historical price data that's adjusted for dividends and any stock splits. Problem I encountered is that for VWRL those historic yahoo numbers appear flawed.

Easiest thing is perhaps to obtain the starting benchmark prices, work out the quantities and plug the values into a trustnet portfolio.

Hello John


Maybe, perhaps, possibly we're looking this slightly differenetly.
I'm more than happy to post up twice a year to show how my investment with the Bonkers Principle is going.
Because I'm a happy chap and I'm in a good mood, I'll post up how various funds and a tracker index has performed over the same period.


If you or others would like to set up something that goes into a lot more depth, I'll start to show how many units of X that I bought and how much each unit cost me :beer: