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Will they go to court or not?

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  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    edited 8 February 2018 at 1:37PM
    Tarambor wrote: »
    Why people like yourself feel you have the right to dump your car on land other people own as you please ...

    If you want someone to be angry at be angry at those who have abused the goodwill of the people who own the land.

    If this was to get to court, I would not be surprised if a judge threw it out. I see no abuse of private property here. All I see is a well known scammer failing to apply common sense, just like your good-self

    Have you seen what MPs think about PE, watch this

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41.

    Clearly PE knows it has erred, why else would it accept £60?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,633
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    edited 9 February 2018 at 12:29AM
    It should be noted that the grace period at 13.2 of British Parking Association Code of Practice is to allow motorists to enter the car park, read the terms and conditions, and exit the car park if they do not wish to be bound by them. This is only intended for motorists that wish to leave within this grace period.
    They would say that, wouldn't they. Making it up as they go along.

    It actually says in the BPA CoP that the time at the start is to decide whether to STAY or go.

    STAY...or go.

    So a person takes that time on arrival to read the signs, and they decide to stay so they lock their car and it's parked and left for under two hours. No-one can reasonably conclude that the 'time to decide whether to stay or go' is suddenly gone in a puff of smoke when the patron decides to stay (and spend money) yet it remains allowed for people who leave (and don't spend money)!

    Then at the end there is of course a second period of grace for the non-parking activity. the person returns in good time to the car, gets in, after loading their shopping, then queues to leave, none of which is parking time either. And the pesky BPA CoP says that MUST be at least ten minutes in its own right...and even peskier Kelvin Reynolds of the BPA said it can be longer for disabled people:

    http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

    And even worse, the BPA CoP tells PPCs that they need to be aware that disabled people might take longer to go about their business, longer to get to machines and/or signs, and in and out of the car, etc. ''MAY WELL TAKE LONGER''...and PE must comply with that CoP.

    Tough, Parking Eye, you are stuffed and this case (and others) demonstrates that you are nasty, discriminatory money-grabbers, with no service to drivers whatsoever being provided, none at all.

    But to any reasonable interpretation, unless there is a ''red arrow with a red hand pointing to it'', flashing lights at drivers as they enter, so they can't pass until they have read it, then NO DRIVER is going to be of the understanding that the clock starts when they drive in, waaaay before they park.

    It is rubbish, won't stand up in court.

    I see they are silent about the Equality Act requirement upon them to make a reasonable adjustment of time, in advance, in anticipation of disabled visitors at large (whether the people's conditions are known about or not, is no excuse for ParkingEye applying an arbitrary time limit for all visitors).

    They didn't even mention it in their haste to offer to settle.

    Methinks they will fold before a hearing. You have the moral and legal high ground.
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  • Latest BPA COP, JAn 2018:


    It seems that they have changed the wording slightly.


    13.1 does not apply to this case, as it is for locations where parking is not permitted.


    13.2 - Which PE cite, says nothing like what they claim!


    I assume this can be interpreted as a pre parking grace period? EG 10 mins. before any enforcement action can be taken. Because 13.4 is clearly about the grace period after parking.
    13 Grace periods


    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]must have the chance to read the terms and conditions [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.[/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes. [/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.2.a Vehicles are not permitted to park under the grace [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]period in spaces designated to specific users for example [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]Blue Badge holders. At all times vehicles must have [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]appropriate and valid permit e.g Blue Badge on display for enforcement officer to inspect. [/FONT][/FONT]


    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.3 You must tell us the specific grace period at a site if our [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]compliance team or our agents ask what it is. [/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light] [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes. [/FONT][/FONT]
  • rizla01
    rizla01 Posts: 7,254
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    edited 9 February 2018 at 12:30PM
    Thats interesting? Hadn't spotted that change.

    Am I not bound only by the COP at the time of the event, tho?
    "Unhappiness is not knowing what we want, and killing ourselves to get it."
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  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961
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    At time of event THEY are bound by it, not you.
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,158
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    rizla01 wrote: »
    Thats interesting? Hadn't spotted that change.

    Am I not bound only by the COP at the time of the event, tho?
    Yes, version 6, which was replaced by version 7 in January of this year.
  • rizla01
    rizla01 Posts: 7,254
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    At time of event THEY are bound by it, not you.


    But surely their case for prosecution would rely on the rules in force at the time.
    I would expect them to argue that later changes to the rules cannot be applied to any case.
    "Unhappiness is not knowing what we want, and killing ourselves to get it."
    Post Count: 4,111 Thanked 3,111 Times in 1,111 Posts (Actual figures as they once were))
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  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,256
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    rizla01 wrote: »
    But surely their case for prosecution would rely on the rules in force at the time.
    I would expect them to argue that later changes to the rules cannot be applied to any case.

    That's what nosferatu is saying. They cannot retrospectively apply new rules from a new Code of Practice - but it won't stop them trying.

    They won't be 'prosecuting' in its strict legal sense - they are not a prosecuting authority, they're simply a private parking company!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

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  • rizla01
    rizla01 Posts: 7,254
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    Umkomaas wrote: »
    That's what nosferatu is saying. They cannot retrospectively apply new rules from a new Code of Practice - but it won't stop them trying.

    They won't be 'prosecuting' in its strict legal sense - they are not a prosecuting authority, they're simply a private parking company!

    Sorry. Should have made it clearer.
    The changes in the newest COP are of benefit to me as I have underlined.
    Whilst being a welcome change I am not sure that i can use th changes retrospectively in my defence.

    Clause 13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.

    This clause was re-worded in the 2018 revision to:-

    Clause 13.2 and 30.2 - If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a minimum of 10 minutes.
    "Unhappiness is not knowing what we want, and killing ourselves to get it."
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    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
  • Sorry if I caused any confusion.


    Below is V6 valid from 2015 to Jan 2018.


    13.2 is still nothing like the quote from PE, so they need reporting, and a robust letter back quoting the actual words.


    This 13.2 clearly says "You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go."


    Whilst this does not define 10 mins, there is a minimum of 10 mins at the leaving end (13.4) so 10 mins would seem reasonable.


    13 Grace periods
    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.[/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light][FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light] [/FONT][/FONT]

    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]

    [FONT=GillSans Light,GillSans Light]

    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
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