Will they go to court or not?

rizla01

That is something she doesn't want brought up CM and doesn't see that it should be necessary.
She/I was hoping that the rest of the evidence against them would be sufficient. Do you perhaps not think so?

Without adding that would you suggest submitting the reply as is?

Coupon-mad

Yes, go for it. I do understand her position.

rizla01

Is there nothing you would change/add?

Coupon-mad

I would quote the CPR and list your likely costs (make it over £100) to focus their minds, like here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/73194937#Comment_73194937

rizla01

Should I simply add -

The Claimant is invited to withdraw his claim with no order for costs. This is a "drop hands" offer to settle with each party bearing their own costs. The offer is available for acceptance for a period of 14 days from the date of this letter.

The terms of the offer have value to the Claimant insofar as the defendant will not seek his costs of defending the action.

If the offer is not accepted, the defendant will seek to claim his costs of the defence and additional costs for unreasonable conduct pursuant to CPR Part 27.14 (2) (d) (e) (g) as per below.

(2) The court may not order a party to pay a sum to another party in respect of that other party!!!8217;s costs, fees and expenses, including those relating to an appeal, except !!!8211;

(d) expenses which a party or witness has reasonably incurred in travelling to and from a hearing or in staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;

(e) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for any loss of earnings or loss of leave by a party or witness due to attending a hearing or to staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;

(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably

If we are unable to resolve this via a 'drop hands' arrangement, I will be seeking a punitive cost order against the claimant. Already my costs amount to £65 for time spent in research and seeking legal advice but I will be seeking further costs in view of the claimant's evident unreasonableness in pursuing me as well as the cost involved in employing a Videographer , someone whose services I will partly rely upon for my defence of this case. The cost of that service provided will be a minimum of £120 plus VAT.and on top of that my costs will be in the region of £110 including loss of earnings plus travelling to & from the courthouse.
Total costs claimed should therefore be in the region of £295.00


Or do I need to be more specific about the actual amounts claimed and how I arrived at those figures

Coupon-mad

Add in any travel costs and loss of leave/salary for attending a hearing.

rizla01

Just did that

Does that look reasonable to you CM?

Coupon-mad

Yes. I would cut & paste this to the very end, as it points the way ahead:

The Claimant is invited to withdraw his claim with no order for costs. This is a "drop hands" offer to settle with each party bearing their own costs. The offer is available for acceptance for a period of 14 days from the date of this letter.

Quentin

DoaM wrote: »

@post #178 ... it's a long thread ... have you already acknowledged being the driver? If not then your point a) gives the game away.

Earlier in the thread we were told that the defendant is the keeper, and is a different individual from the OP??

rizla01

Ok. Hopefully this flows well and covers all the points.

By way of reply, please permit me to draw your attention to a couple of points that you have raised.
You stated:-
1) It should be noted that the grace period at 13.2 of British Parking Association Code of Practice is to allow motorists to enter the car park, read the terms and conditions, and exit the car park if they do not wish to be bound by them.
Unless I am mistaken, it is Section 13.1 that you are probably referring to which actually says:-

!!!8216;Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park, but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.!!!8217;

Whereas section 13.2 that you incorrectly referred to clearly states: - the !!!8216;Grace Period!!!8217; is to enable a motorist reasonable time to decide whether to stay or not.
Please note-: This period of time applies to ALL motorists, whether or not they decide to park, and NOT as you claim.

The !!!8216;grace period!!!8217; referred to is in ADDITION to the 2 hour parking event, in the same way that as according to 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice V.6, a !!!8216;grace period!!!8217; AFTER the parking event has taken place, should also be given and that period should be a minimum time of 10 minutes.
It is now recognised (V. 7 of the B.P.A. Code of Practice) that the !!!8216;grace period!!!8217; prior to parking must also be a minimum of 10 minutes and there is no reason to suggest that period should be any less in previous years.

Therefore all motorists using this area are allowed 10 minutes, PLUS two hours free parking, plus a further 10 minutes making a sum total of 2 hours and 20 Minutes.
Clearly you can see that the 2 hours 18 minutes that you claim my car was in the Greyhound Parking area , is well within that time frame in which case I see absolutely no obligation to make any payment to your Company, whatsoever as there is no debt owing. I am totally confident that any judge would draw the same conclusion and I hope you will now see that further continuance of this matter is completely futile and without value.
If not, then please allow me to reiterate the following failings on your behalf, for the judge to also consider when making his decision:-


Version 6 Section 18.3 BPA Code of Practice states:-
a) You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site
You have failed to satisfy this condition as your signage does NOT cover the whole site. There are many areas, especially where I parked my car and other areas nearby that are completely devoid of any parking signs.
b] Signs must be conspicuous
Signage is placed far too high to be considered conspicuous All signs shown on your signage map are approx 8ft off the ground. Indeed one sign shown on your signage map doesn!!!8217;t even exist.
c) Easy to see read and understand.
I was only able to read the terms & conditions on your signs with the use of my Iphone by taking a photograph and enlarging it.
Your email also goes on to say:-

2) Furthermore, as noted below, you have confirmed that you had seen the signage on the date of the parking event and had been aware of the terms and conditions applicable in remaining at Greyhound Retail Park.
As stated in my last letter: Doe to the grossly inadequate signage layout, it was only on return to my car that I became aware of ANY sign. I then proceeded to move my car from the car park to the KFC Restaurant area where I was WAITING for an extended period of time before being served. After which time, I queued to leave the car park, as soon as I was able.
You also add that:-
3) The signage clearly conveys that by remaining within the car park, the motorist becomes bound by the terms and conditions of parking.
!!!8216;Clearly conveys!!!8217; is one thing your signage evidently fails to do, since in order to be bound by the terms &conditions within your signage the motorist must reasonably be able to read those terms & conditions. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure that is feasible.
Also, as you will be fully aware, moving my car to a different area; and especially one that has no parking bays and no parking signs (and therefore cannot be considered part of the parking (For shopping) area), constitutes a second parking event and this too, is covered by further legislation ensuring that you are forbidden to count the time spent as one parking event.

Schedule 4 of the POFA that the notice must relate only to a single period of parking !!!8211; (whether a case relies on that Act or not - the intention of Parliament was not to allow private parking firms to add two parking events together, as happened when the car was moved away from the shops to a completely unsigned area such as the KFC, in order to concoct a parking charge as if the driver overstayed when shopping!)
So finally, In light of the above, along with the other points raised in my defence, I have CLEARLY demonstrated that this claim has no realistic prospect of success and the claimant is therefore, once again, invited to withdraw the claim.

If we are unable to resolve this via a 'drop hands' arrangement, I will be seeking a punitive cost order against your Company in view of Parking Eye!!!8217;s evident unreasonableness in pursuing me.

In order to assist the judge in arriving at a fair decision, will also need to employ the services of a videographer, for evidence providing purposes, to film the view from a car entering and parking, filming footage of the entrance and the entire site to clearly demonstrate where signage is placed and where it is absent. I will also need to take the morning away from very well paid job and,
I shall seek to claim my costs of the defence and additional costs pursuant to CPR Part 27.14 (2) (d) (e) (g) as per below.

(2) The court may not order a party to pay a sum to another party in respect of that other party!!!8217;s costs, fees and expenses, including those relating to an appeal, except :-

(d) expenses which a party or witness has reasonably incurred in travelling to and from a hearing or in staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;

(e) a sum not exceeding the amount specified in Practice Direction 27 for any loss of earnings or loss of leave by a party or witness due to attending a hearing or to staying away from home for the purposes of attending a hearing;

(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably
My costs so far amount to £65 for time spent on research and phone calls as well as costs incurred seeking legal advice but I will be seeking further costs also. As well as the cost involved in employing a Videographer (The cost of the service quoted is a minimum of £120 plus VAT) my personal costs will be in the region of £110 including loss of earnings plus travelling to & from the courthouse.
Total costs claimed will therefore be in the region of £295.00
You are once again invited to withdraw your claim with no order for costs. This is a "drop hands" offer to settle with each party bearing their own costs. The offer is available for acceptance for a period of 14 days from the date of this letter.

I look forward to your reply

Is it OK to send unsigned or does it need printing signing and scanning do you think CM?