A Simpler Life 2018

Cottage_Economy

Charis wrote: »

That article made me laugh, Cottage. It was written by Juliet Schor, professor of sociology at Boston College. I couldn't identify with anything she is saying. I thought maybe it's because I live in a far away land, or because I've retired. I realise that city life has for some become a kind of bubble, away from the real world, at least for the 10% who have 'made it'. Or are faking it by getting into credit card debt. Or are truly mesmerised by advertising.

I identified with almost everything she said and I don't live in the city. You are a generation above me and I can tell you there is pressure to buy and keep up with the Jones' all the time in my generation. Its insidious, it's like an elephant in the room.

We drive an old banger, buy most of our clothes at secondhand shops, save up for anything we want, have basic 'brick' phones on PAYG that we top up with £10 a month. We have no sky, no social media accounts, rarely eat out, and cook from scratch. That's by choice now, although in the past it was necessity for many years. Any purchases are carefully considered, definitely not impulse.

I've lost count of the number of people who have said we should be doing better purely based on what our life looks like on the surface. We are considered 'weird'. We do not fit anywhere (except perhaps MSE!). People are constantly comparing what what we have against what they and others have, and using it as a marker of 'success'. Each generation's expectations on what is required before they can be happy seems to be different from the one before. My parents preface an observation of those differences with the words "In my day..."

Charis wrote: »

For the rest, including my own now adult children, life has fewer choices than it did for me. It is a struggle to find affordable housing and feed the children, let alone buy designer clothes.

That's interesting because I believe I have much more choice than my parents did (sometimes too much choice), and that I am more fortunate than they are because of that. Technology, especially the internet, has presented me almost every opportunity or pathway I've taken in life. I know many people abhor technology, but used properly and kept in its place it should be just a tool to help you achieve what you want. The problem comes when it becomes a huge part of your life, more than it should be.

Charis wrote: »

We need to return to old values of simplicity, integrity, community and this time round make sure we add a dose of equality.

The problem is, a sizeable proportion of people either won't want those values or will have their own interpretation based on their generational experiences. Young people have their own ideas about what constitutes simplicity and community, and it will be different to what you or I remember and want to revisit.

In fact, my idea of simplicity and community will be different to yours.

I hope to high heaven though our ideas of integrity are identical!;)

Cottage_Economy

SimpleLiving wrote: »

It got to the point where I stopped making conversation because it was painful, having to shout was awful. She would sit there completely missing the point of the conversation and say things to pretend she was understanding, which she clearly wasn't.

This. Completely. Nodding and making positive noises, then asking a question that shows she didn't hear what I said at all.

CRANKY40 wrote: »

Years ago we had a main present from parents, small gifts from grandparents and aunts and uncles and if anyone else bought anything it was usually a selection box.

Yes I remember that. I loved the selection box. Hated the nuts at the bottom of the stocking though. I also remember Christmas never lasting as long. I got excited when school broke up because that is when the tree would go up and everyone else seemed to start getting festive. Down it came Jan 2nd. [/QUOTE]

System

Pooky wrote: »

I asked my parents a few years back now, if they could write a few bits down, memories of birthdays and family, school days etc, just snippet but stuff I’d like to know. They went one better and made both my sister and I a lovely scrap book full of old photos, copies of birth, marriage and death certificates for grandparents/great grandparents, a copy of my grandmothers ration book, a brief but helpful family tree for both sides and then my Dad sat and wrote a small booklet about each of them....including stories I’d never heard, stuff about how they met, bits about their wedding day and working lives. It’s amazing and I’d encourage anyone to write something like that for their kids.


Fuds - I just use washing up liquid for the dishes and zoflora for everything else now...the cinnamon and orange one is gorgeous and indilute it into a spray bottle for work surfaces and damp dusting (lovely rubbed along the radiators) and the bathroom and then once every few weeks a descaler from Lidl to get my bathroom tiles all sparkly (hard water area). The zoflora on the floors makes the house smell beautiful too. Amazing what you don’t need in that cupboard under the sink isn’t it.

I agree. I have cut down on bottles under the sink so much. I buy massive tubs of bicarb & massive bottles of white vinegar. Mix together for all sorts of cleaning jobs and add a squirt of lemon juice when doing the floors.

fuddle

The pressure to keep up with Jones' is only there if we let it. I was a Jones 8 years ago and a steep learning curve sees me nowhere near now. Yes I get comments and yes I have let them bother me but these past few months I just don't care. There is no pressure in my eyes. There's lack of self confidence and there's ignorant jealousy. If these two meet then there's pressure. It's up to us to take away the self doubt and lack of self confidence which in turn stamps out the ignorance.

Jones' are perturbed because we don't want to keep up with them.

I happen to think that life is very much different than even just 10 years ago. In my twenties we were encouraged to go get stuff, have stuff, do stuff because 'you deserve it'. I think 'we' as a society are very far away from that mentality now. I lived in the South for a bit but I live in my home area in the North East again. We live on one salary and I can tell you that my weekly food budget is being stretched more and more as the months go on. Had we still lived in Dorset, well I know we couldn't survive on one salary. Things are awful for so many people my age (born 79) back when I was at school disaffected kids were few and far between. So many children today are lack lustre and have behaviour problems because of depressed, money strapped parents who just give up. It's dire for so, so many.

My grandma, she would have been 90 now if she was still alive, was a housewife. She had 3 children and a husband who worked down the pit. They lived in a breeze block house that had icicles on the inside! Life was tough for my grandma and there's times I remember her being a little like a martyr but the difference is my grandma and grandma could cope, just, with lowered expectations and careful planning. Like my family now.

What has happened to the middle generation, those born in the 50's and 60's say, that have had 20 and 30 something's like me who can't cope? I've had it a bit rubbish and I've coped like my grandma did. What is it that is making people just not cope?

I'm well aware I'm generalising and my post is based on my family and what I see but life was tough 50 years ago and then it just wasn't so. Now it's tough again and those that have grown up in the aftermath of post war prosperity are struggling to accept that there is no such thing as the life of prosperity that they were lead to believe. Our economy is based upon consumer spending. What a mess.

I worry deeply for my children because they are likely to struggle making ends meet. I just hope I give them the skills to be able to deal with hard times because that is life. Life is hard. We can't have what we want when we want it and that is the message that has been missing from so many of my generation. I was bankrupt because I had expectations. I had my house repossessed because I tried to keep up with the Jones'. I never would be like my grandma had it not been that shock and trying to deal with the mess that followed. I would be a Jones, living with high expectations and thinking I was entitled.

My parents had it great. I grew up, amidst losing my dad, with a sense of entitlement that I shall have and with a 'if it's good enough for the goose's mentality. I wasn't taught about things going wrong. Have. Have. Have. So no, I don't think these days we have it better than our parents. I think it's hard and I don't think we're equipped. The lucky ones will be the offspring who have been taught that there's no entitlement but those lucky ones will be sharing a society with many a disaffected and troubled soul who have no such upbringing.

Apologies. That was long but it's a subject that is very raw for me.

MadamMim2013

Pooky wrote: »

Fuds - I just use washing up liquid for the dishes and zoflora for everything else now...the cinnamon and orange one is gorgeous and indilute it into a spray bottle for work surfaces and damp dusting (lovely rubbed along the radiators) and the bathroom and then once every few weeks a descaler from Lidl to get my bathroom tiles all sparkly (hard water area). The zoflora on the floors makes the house smell beautiful too. Amazing what you don’t need in that cupboard under the sink isn’t it.

I purchased that Zoflora after seeing a tip (on here somewhere!) & used it to help disinfect my washing machine.. Oh my goodness, it smelt divine and the kitchen did too.. Everyone commented on it :A

Lynplatinum

Evening all

I really sympathise with those who are living with older folks. But I think it is difficult to 'blend' two very different lifestyles together. I retired early to Cornwall (back home) thanks to my own hard work; some very dear friends help; and MSE - particularly the Make Do Mend and Minimise thread. then my son lost his home due to his business partner walking away with 80 % of the cash. He, his partner, their 10 month old plus their two large dogs moved into my tiny (downsized) house. It has been very very difficult.

When I am in an uncharitable mood - I think of her as lazy, ignorant, self-centred, and stupid to boot! when I am in a good mood I put her actions down to (variously) a lack of training by her own family/ongoing but not formally diagnosed depression/ her youth/ all of the various ailments she claims to have. And point out to myself that she loves her child; does craft projects with the child; disciplines the child and feeds it healthy food; and seems at least fond of my son; makes my son laugh.

Why? she does not tidy up after herself or the child unless asked to do so; she can never finish a load of washing up such that there is no more left to do and the kitchen sides are wiped down; she would leave used nappies and dirty clothes all over the living room if I did not pick them up; she would not bother to get dressed or take child to playgroup or singing group unless I chased her to do so; she leaves washing in the machine for days; she rarely puts dry washing away; she leaves craft stuff all over the place (some of it is dangerous to the child) etc etc etc

I have stipulated that one day a week she should help me with the house work - but after sweeping 2 small rooms ( hard floors throughout) she declares herself exhausted. Also whoever cooks does not wash up (see above for how that goes!)All things would be automatically easier in a larger house.

My son works full time and commutes and has got a promotion within 4 months of starting to work down here and pays their way - comes home; looks after the child; tidies and cleans on his days off!

Now, they are trying to save for their own place but 13 months on - its wearing a bit thin. Hints have been dropped by her family that I am too much of a perfectionist (but I am getting better Hehehe :rotfl: )

Why am I saying all this? because I think the 'blending' of the families is very difficult - I do like little clutter and a clean house and am usually a busy person (washing dishes soon after dinner for example but then I let them drain ) my idea of heaven is not sitting on a sofa in a dark cottage watching soap opras and game shows while stuffing chocolates. I like going out walking or taking the little one, even on grey and rainy days, to the park. But I can see an end in sight - once they move out!

I really feel for those who have 'blended' for whatever reason and there is no way out.

So while under this stress what have I done to help me 'live simply' :
1) decluttering 30 items each month (e.g. 11 spare forks last month - still have 12?? Why???
2) finding the bottom of drawers!! such joy!!
3) being able to find stuff instantly rather than scrobbling out in drawers/cupboards like a dog digging in sand! :rotfl:
4)simplifying - my money (no longer ordering from a catalouge - theyve been an absolute pain - insisting you ring up to make payments - theyve 'outsourced ' their call centre and no one there understands a word you are saying! ) :mad:
5)organising 'DIL' to go round her mates one evening a week (AND breathe!)
6) going to yoga one night a week - just for me!
7) going to see friends for lunch (on my own) about 4 times per month - it helps me to down load (AND breathe)
8) going on MSE to keep re assured there are others in similar boats and using U tube for inspiration (look for minimalism or simple living)

I know those 'co-living' can not all take advantage of all of my ideas but if any are of any use - please feel free to utilise

Apologies for the long post.

MadamMim2013

fuddle wrote: »

The pressure to keep up with Jones' is only there if we let it. I was a Jones 8 years ago and a steep learning curve sees me nowhere near now. Yes I get comments and yes I have let them bother me but these past few months I just don't care. There is no pressure in my eyes. There's lack of self confidence and there's ignorant jealousy. If these two meet then there's pressure. It's up to us to take away the self doubt and lack of self confidence which in turn stamps out the ignorance.
Jones' are perturbed because we don't want to keep up with them.

I agree, so many feel they have expectations to live up to and MUST maintain a way of life that shows just how well they are doing (while drowning in a sea of debt) it's so sad.
I have done my best to show my teenage children the value of money along with the dark side & temptations that come with it.. (Have had struggles within my life.. A whole other story!) We are a happier family because we make do, are careful with what we spend and most importantly save for a wanted item!

I'm definitely not one to be perturbed if someone doesn't want to 'keep up' with me.. Even if I do have the unfortunate surname :rotfl: Have trouble keeping up with myself

CRANKY40

I'm the opposite Fuds. i was born in 1967, my late husband was born in the fifties and I think I spent most of my childhood from as long as I can remember worrying about money and if we had enough. My mum talked my dad into getting a mortgage instead of staying in my nana's council house. My nana was a widow and came with us so it wasn't to leave her behind or anything like that. My dad was a marine engineer working for the local shipbuilders and pretty soon the strikes started. We didn't even run a car or anything like that and we were in trouble so many times. The shipbuilding industry here collapsed....my dad had to find work abroad at one point, then they moved to London to run a shop. That was the point where my mum left us all and moved back north but that's another story. I had to do my day job and replace my mum in the shop to help my dad of an evening. I did that for 9 months and was shattered by the time my dad got a job just for him. I was 18 at the time.

I am trying to teach my son that there are so many more important things than possessions. He probably has more technology than some children as he gets a pension from the MOD in respect of my late husband but if anyone tells him that he is lucky he will gently remind them that he'd rather his dad was here. He's a saver as well which I'm thankful for.

GreyQueen

:T Very very thoughtful and interesting post, fuddle, as always your thoughtfulness and self-awareness is impressive.

I'm an early-mid 1960s sproglette, born at the start of Gen X. Most of the bits of childhood that I remember well were in the 1970s, by the time of your own birth, I was already in secondary school.

So, not quite old enough to be of your mum's generation, but not of yours either. From this half-way persepctive, I'll chuck my two-pennorth in.

What happened seems to have had its root in the 1960s permissive society, the thought that almost anything goes. The 1950s, from my parents' point of view, were boring, rather shabby but broadly speaking safe. There was still a lot of bigotry about, and many things which would make any decent person cringe to hear nowadays were commonplaces of both everyday speech and even broadcast media, and this continued up until the 1980s

By the 1960s, this thing called the teenager had suddenly appeared and the idea that there was an intermediate stage between childhood and adulthood, with its own habits, costumes, language and pastimes was pretty new. Adolescence currently seems to extend to the early thirties for some people I encounter IRL........

Throughout the 1970s, despite the many bumps in the road re the oil crisis and other things, ordinary people were becoming richer. On the council estate where I grew up, people started getting cars. Nothing fancy, secondhand cortinas, escorts, things like that, but that was a new thing. Folks could suddenly afford the odd package holiday abroad, and other things, like new clothes which didn't have to be bought on terms via the catalogue book.

With thatcherism, and particularly the right-to-buy your council housing, the nascent consumer society elided smoothly into a worldview where people got grabby and me-first. There was a lot of unemployment in the early eighties (at the time I joined the job market) and there was also a sharp rift in the working classes, into the haves and have-nots. People seemed selfish and greedy, and the whole tenor of society was to encourage that and treat anyone who didn't want to play as quaint and silly. People seemed to move from establishing their reputation by deeds to promoting it by displays of conspicious consumption.

The folks who are twenty-somethings now are the children of my peers; in other words, the spawn of Gen X'ers. Like all generations, they contain the good, the bad and the middling, but there does seem to be a hardened sense of entitlement and a carelessness for others.

One example I see often enough is a lady who got her council home based on need as a lone parent. Subsequently, finding a new partner with their own home and moving in with them. Only not serving notice and releasing her council home to serve some other woman with children in their hour of need. Nope; move into new hubby's owner-occupied home after exercising your right-to-buy yours and then renting it out privately for double what the council charge asap the ink is dry on the contract.

Nothing illegal about it, of course, but is it a decent and moral way to behave? I'd contend it isn't but am aware that it makes me sound hopelessly naive. Because everyone should grab whatever they can and devil take the hindmost, hey?

With all things, the wheel will turn. Life is going to become economically more difficult, the steady improvement in standards of living which has been going on since WW2 is already over. Some folks have noticed this already (I expect it isn't news to old-stylers) and some are trying to hide their slipping income by borrowing to big themselves up. An awful lot of people sail very close to the wind and it doesn't take much to capsize their lifestyle.

Industrialised societies like our own are based on the premise that your can use finite resources on a finite planet as if they were infinite. You can't, of course, no amount of excitement about modern technology is going the buck the laws of physics. The future may well end up looking more like a quasi-Victorian steampunk novel than some shiny appleworld of loft living.

As life gets harder, community will be more important, and we may well revert to clans of extended families working co-operatively or folks forming clans of like-minded individuals.

In those cases, keeping up with the Jones is going to be so far from relevant that we'll wonder why we ever gave a four-ecks.

As Quentin Crisp sagely remarked Never keep up with the Jones. Drag them down to your level.

Cottage_Economy

I’ve been sitting here eating my dinner and thinking back to what life was like when I was a child and expectations that my parents had for themselves and me. I’d never thought about it much but I remember the housing set up for both sides of my family – multi-generational occupancy - which today would be considered unsuitable but it was perfectly normal back then to save money and keep the family together.

My mum’s family: Welsh mining family, all pooled their money and moved to a Victorian terrace in a London suburb. My uncle and aunt lived upstairs with their two girls in a two bedroom flat, the girls shared. My nan and grandad lived downstairs with my uncle and a lad they adopted as their grandson. The grandson had a single bed in the corner of the lounge behind the sofa that was covered over during the day to hide it. During the day he would ‘live’ in my grandparents bedroom. Apart from the kitchen, the only other room was a smaller reception room downstairs that another uncle used to live in by himself. Add in two cats and two dogs. All rubbed along fairly well for decades until nan and grandad retired back to Wales. They could afford to by then thanks to saving and house prices rising.

My dad’s family: When my parents married, nan and grandad lived on the bottom floor of a council house, an aunt and uncle on the middle floor with their kids, and my parents lived on the top floor with their kids. Middle and top floor shared a bathroom. All shared laundry facilities out the back. All rubbed along fairly well. Mum and dad did it for five years until they could afford a deposit for their first home in the seventies.

By the time I was an adult, there was expectation that a couple would aspire to live in a home on their own with their kids, who ideally would each have their own bedroom. In one generation in my family, multi-generational occupancy was phased out completely. Not a single member of either side of my family shared with another family/person outside their own little ‘unit’ again. I am actually the first family member to return to blended living.

Now, people not only want their kids to have a room each, but extra rooms for guests or a study.

It makes me wonder just how much space is enough for us to feel happy? What has that cost us, both in the sense of family community that is lost and also the years spent working to pay mortgages and rents on rooms that are barely used. Would life be better if we all lived together again? If we all learnt the skills to co-exist peaceably with others and share the same space?