When did Free Speech disappear?

Marisco

andrewf75 wrote: »

This is the definition according to google:
"Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own."

so actually more a reference to age rather than left wing views, but I'd say that description fits someone like the OP and many others of her generation to a tee as well.

That would be what I would mean if I called someone a "snowflake" as well.

Cornucopia

grahawk wrote: »

Some of the worst snowflakism I've seen has come from right wingers.

I genuinely don't recognise the concept. What have you in mind?

Cornucopia

Marisco wrote: »

If a group of friends are talking about something (I don't mean drunken shouting all over the place) and someone overhears something they are "offended" by something they hear, (again I'm not talking about crime "plotting" here) then they need to keep their noses out and move to another part of the pub!

In much of this, context is everything. What is being said? How is it being said? To whom? Are there any "body language" issues? What is the prevailing clientele of the Pub? What is the expressed or implied tolerance level of the owner/manager? Is there "history"?

You can see that much of that might also apply to an online social gathering place.



More generally, it's unfortunate in some ways that the online space is dominated by private ownership, but it is what it is. There is nothing to be gained from denying the fact or ignoring its consequences. If people want a publicly-owned bastion for free speech, then the opportunity is out there.

I would say: be careful what you wish for, though, and also that I imagine that such a place would adopt certain moderation rules very quickly once the practical implications of truly unlimited free speech became apparent.

Mrs_Arcanum

Forums where anything goes as far as comment is concerned, tend to be dominated by those with a particular agenda, so the conversations become circular & dull due to entrenched positions.

I have seen sites where two people have online slanging matches (without swearing), yet oddly those same people support posters who shout all the time and spout homophobic bigotry and lies, whose posts get deleted pretty quickly. So there is a clear gulf between what people will accept and what board managers tolerate.

I for one am on the side of keeping things civil.

Marisco

Cornucopia wrote: »

In much of this, context is everything. What is being said? How is it being said? To whom? Are there any "body language" issues? What is the prevailing clientele of the Pub? What is the expressed or implied tolerance level of the owner/manager? Is there "history"?

.

I'm talking about some friends sitting round a table having a quiet drink and discussing topical subject as you do. They might be talking about immigration, terrorism, the EU, price of footie tickets (I'm bloody offended by that!! ) etc, and someone on the next table overhears something they don't like. Have they got the right to be offended, or rather, complain, at a conversation that is none of their business, but they just happen to overhear?

Muttleythefrog

Cornucopia wrote: »

I genuinely don't recognise the concept. What have you in mind?

I've a few things in mind... and I listed some... but I've decided to delete them and post this instead..lol... as it would identify individuals with clarity if not name. Is worth adding... despite my contentious opinions often forcefully put over the years... only been in trouble on this site regarding one theme... and that's when I've done some original comedy about Brexit. Read into that what you will... perhaps my jokes aren't good enough for the new world of life outside the EU.

Muttleythefrog

Marisco wrote: »

I'm talking about some friends sitting round a table having a quiet drink and discussing topical subject as you do. They might be talking about immigration, terrorism, the EU, price of footie tickets (I'm bloody offended by that!! ) etc, and someone on the next table overhears something they don't like. Have they got the right to be offended, or rather, complain, at a conversation that is none of their business, but they just happen to overhear?

Well in a pub it comes down to how they want to deal with things. I've thrown people out without apology because their conversation was not going to be well received by those who might overhear... examples... parents with kids listening to foul mouth abuse of referees by those watching the footie... people talking about there being too many blacks in London sat next to a table that included a black customer... a couple of blokes talking about their criminal history of stabbing people sat near to a meeting of a group of Christian students... a bloke who repeatedly shouted Heil Hitler every time someone ordered a continental beer (funny perhaps once or twice but not drink after drink night after night). In the end you're there to make money while issuing poison to people you hope to prevent causing trouble or damage... keeping the peace is quite a money spinner...lol

Marisco

I genuinely cannot understand this reporting malarky, maybe it's because I have a very very high "offence" tolerance, in fact I'm struggling to think of anything that offends me (apart from footie ticket prices ) I would much rather stand and fight my corner, (or give as good as I get, depending on how you see it ) rather than press the report button.

Marisco

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Well in a pub it comes down to how they want to deal with things. I've thrown people out without apology because their conversation was not going to be well received by those who might overhear... examples... parents with kids listening to foul mouth abuse of referees by those watching the footie... people talking about there being too many blacks in London sat next to a table that included a black customer... a couple of blokes talking about their criminal history of stabbing people sat near to a meeting of a group of Christian students... a bloke who repeatedly shouted Heil Hitler every time someone ordered a continental beer (funny perhaps once or twice but not drink after drink night after night). In the end you're there to make money while issuing poison to people you hope to prevent causing trouble or damage... keeping the peace is quite a money spinner...lol

Well my first though when I read that was, that parents shouldn't be taking kids into a pub with a footie match on. I've frequently been to pubs to watch Newcastle playing, and the language is something else again, but everyone should know that, if they are easily offended then the last place to go is a pub with the footy on. You must know how people get carried away, especially watching NUFC I remember watching a match in a local pub a few years ago, and the guy in front of us stood up and shouted "F*****g Mackems", we weren't even playing Sunderland that day :eek:

I understand what your saying re the rest, but unless people are actually shouting, then it's not very good if your out relaxing you have to watch everything you say in case an evesdropper hears something they don't like/agree with.

Former_MSE_Andrea

What he/she said :beer: :T

Penitent wrote: »

In terms of this particular corner of debate...

I think it's worth remembering that MSE is a site about saving money. As the mods explained to me when I asked why a completely inoffensive post of mine was removed, they only have so many mods and so much time, so they choose to devote that time primarily to the money-related parts of the forums, since that's what the site is actually for. This means that they'll often just delete something in the non-money-related parts of the forum without looking very deeply into it if they've received complaints about it or if it potentially puts them at risk of legal problems (hence the missing threads about the missing girl).

If you want an unmoderated debate, you may be better finding (or creating) another forum where anything goes. If you want to express views that many strongly disagree with without receiving a negative response, then you need to seek out a forum for people who share those views. It depends on what your goal is.

DT is often very hostile, but we all know and expect that. Demanding a calm, reasoned debate in here is like going into a clothes shop and demanding sausages. Maybe it would make more sense to go to a butcher instead?