When did Free Speech disappear?

Marisco

BarryBlue wrote: »

I do agree. I suppose there could be an argument over women voting having an effect on others, rather like those that are scared to death of 16-year-olds voting in case it helps their opponents.

There can be no similar argument about same-sex marriage though. Those that object to it are doing so even though it has not the slightest impact on their lives whatsoever. It is not compulsory, so why would such people simply deny happiness to strangers? Such narrow-minded interference makes as much sense as me wanting to ban stamp collecting!


I don't know what the fuss is about. What you say has reminded me that on quite a few occasions over the years I have been in a gents' toilet and a woman has barged in and used a cubicle, simply because of those queues. All those men didn't put them off. It usually happens at some busy show or event.

As for shared ones, I've just returned from Portugal and many small establishments have one toilet for everyone. The cubicle often contains both toilet and urinal, so everyone is catered for. This is common in Spain too, but I've never seen it here.

That's fine, it's when you have a block with half a dozen or more cubicles that I don't like or want.

Cornucopia

Topcat123 wrote: »

It is a public place. People should be able to say what they like.

It's not a public place, and you can't say what you like in public places, anyway.

We should have freedom of speech for all not just the elite who can afford to run a site.

Running a site like MSE does cost a lot, but something smaller could be operated very cheaply, possibly for nothing. What you wouldn't get from that is a ready-made community.

The libel laws have always been class discrimination, which is why they should be scrapped.

It's not so much a question of class, but of fame. Someone who is famous has a reputation that is worth defending, both in terms of the loss they have suffered and the potential gains from making a successful claim.

I don't think the libel laws should be scrapped, in fact I think there should be greater protection online for people who use their own real identities.

quidsinquentin

Ames wrote: »

I suspect the main driver of gender neutral toilets is money. Less space taken up by having two or three sets of toilets means more space for stock or shops.

Tbh, I have no problem at all with a gender neutral toilet that allows only one person at a time in. I imagine most households have a gender neutral toilet in effect.

The problem occurs for me when genders other than my own join me in there.

Ames

quidsinquentin wrote: »

Tbh, I have no problem at all with a gender neutral toilet that allows only one person at a time in. I imagine most households have a gender neutral toilet in effect.

The problem occurs for me when genders other than my own join me in there.

Why? If there are individual cubicles then you wouldn't even know the gender of the person next to you.

Where I go swimming the changing rooms are communal with lockable cubicles. No-one seems to have a problem with the setup, including people with children.

And surely men are used to using a urinal with other men standing next to them, why is it so bad for a woman to be the other side of a wooden wall?

I'm genuinely curious.

quidsinquentin

Ames wrote: »

Why? If there are individual cubicles then you wouldn't even know the gender of the person next to you.

Where I go swimming the changing rooms are communal with lockable cubicles. No-one seems to have a problem with the setup, including people with children.

And surely men are used to using a urinal with other men standing next to them, why is it so bad for a woman to be the other side of a wooden wall?

I'm genuinely curious.

When I was about 10, I went into a class in my Catholic school to get something from my school bag at morning play time.

I didn't notice or take much notice of the deputy head (female) with a girl and another female teacher nearby.

They curtly ordered me out of the room, and as I went past them I got a severe clout across the head (seriously, a real stinger) for disturbing them.

The girl (I later learned) had started her period, and back then it was all shocking and terrible and... etc etc.

I couldn't possible recount how many occasions in my life it's been drilled into me mostly by WOMEN that there are immutable differences between men and women that are ALWAYS to be observed under... well, sentence of pain.

From addressing women as 'ladies' to opening doors for women.

And now women and some others want me to simply undo decades of cultural indoctrination overnight?

onlyroz

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

What about when capital punishment was legal - should people have just got over it?

I’m saying that people should accept the laws of the land. If there is a law they disagree with then they should follow the correct protocol and lobby MPs etc etc.

If there is a genuine debate to be had about capital punishment then great. But my own example (women having the vote) related more to rights and freedoms that have been granted - and which I hope nobody seriously thinks should be taken away again. In decades to come I hope that the number of people wanting to take away the rights of gays to marry will dwindle to insignificant numbers.

onlyroz

Our two local swimming pools have “gender neutral” changing rooms and showers - and I have never heard anyone complain. There are cubicles of various sizes for changing and a communal shower area (including a few cubicles if you want to strip off for a full wash). I really don’t see the difference between this and a mixed sex public toilet. Both involve getting undressed in a cubicle with a small partition between you and the other patrons.

seven-day-weekend

onlyroz wrote: »

Our two local swimming pools have “gender neutral” changing rooms and showers - and I have never heard anyone complain. There are cubicles of various sizes for changing and a communal shower area (including a few cubicles if you want to strip off for a full wash). I really don’t see the difference between this and a mixed sex public toilet. Both involve getting undressed in a cubicle with a small partition between you and the other patrons.

But many people hate communal changing rooms too. When I go to the gym I put my gym clothes on before I go so I don't have to use them, and have a shower when I get home.

Anyway, off-topic.

I just would hate gender neutral communal toilets. I would find it terribly embarrassing. Now you might class me as a prude or other things, but that is how I feel. I don't really like communal toilets when it is just my own gender, let alone if people of the other gender were there .


(One toilet that everyone uses I wouldn't mind).

Muttleythefrog

quidsinquentin wrote: »

The problem occurs for me when genders other than my own join me in there.

That's the start of the problem? Sounds like the start of the fun to me.. how many other genders are we talking about here.. I'm starting to feel all Up Pompeii?

coolcait

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

But many people hate communal changing rooms too. When I go to the gym I put my gym clothes on before I go so I don't have to use them, and have a shower when I get home.

Anyway, off-topic.

I just would hate gender neutral communal toilets. I would find it terribly embarrassing. Now you might class me as a prude or other things, but that is how I feel. I don't really like communal toilets when it is just my own gender, let alone if people of the other gender were there .

(One toilet that everyone uses I wouldn't mind).

I could have written your post a few years ago - before I had used gender neutral changing rooms in a local swimming pool, and gender neutral toilets in one of the offices I visit regularly for work reasons.

The gender neutral changing rooms have proper solid cubicles. Not the 'windbreak with saloon doors' efforts that you generally find in the women's changing rooms. Assuming there are any cubicles.

Same with the gender neutral toilets. Proper cubicles, with proper walls that go up to the ceilings. And proper doors that go up to the lintel and down to the floor.

They actually give you far more privacy than you get in changing rooms or toilets which are designed for one gender only.