Smart Meters

RandomQ

Hengus wrote: »

The data security standards for SMETS2 meters were reviewed and strengthened by GCHQ 2 years ago; however,......... Industry experts always say that' it is not a question of if a smart meter can be hacked, it is only a question of when'. The big concern is not the loss of your data but a cyber attack which simultaneously disconnects 1000s of smart meters. This has the potential to do irreparable damage to the Grid.

Quote: The reason for that concern is that these meters contain an OFF switch which allows power to be disconnected by the energy supplier. This is a convenience for them, as they no longer need to send someone round to gain access to a building. However, if it were ever hacked, the hackers could turn off millions of meters at the same time. That could be used to destroy the electricity grid. Unquote

http://www.nickhunn.com/how-to-hack-a-smart-meter-and-kill-the-grid/

One has to ask why the suppliers insisted on remote disconnect when only 210 meters were disconnected in 2016? Other Nations have reduced the risk of Grid damage by not installing any remote disconnection features in their smart meters. Mr Hunn has given evidence to Parliament over the past few years.

Very good points and for those that think hacking is not going to happen, almost every chinese webcam has an ability to be hacked and used for Denial of Service.

There is a REASON that Huawei kit is being removed from critical infrastructure and that it is being banned for public procurement by some countries.

I wonder Hengus, we know meters go dumb if supplier is changed, I wonder if this protects them from remote shut off.

If I am ever forced to have one of these I will render it useless and provide meter readings.

This far there are a huge number of complaints about my provider installing Smart Meters, I think they got a load of naff ones off the back of a lorry or something!

The people to blame are our beloved Government and their quangos like the not fit for purpose OFGEM who should have known to not allow this.

RandomQ

Doweknow78 wrote: »

It seems to me that smart meters are 10% useful and 90% an electricity industry 'lets make some money'.

Most of the posts have ranted on about SMET1 etc and how some companies do this or that.There are bigger questions that should be asked regarding how these helps the end consumer - for me I cannot see any advantage, but can on the horizon see total control from energy suppliers.

Many years ago I was given a energy usage meter, a clip round one incoming lead next to my meter - simple.

It told me when I boiled the electric kettle it used 3kW. Immersion heater, economy 7, 3kW. Oven 3kW. Electric fire 3kW. These were the big use items. If needed each and every other electric item could be measured. Once this was done I knew average usage and it importantly it didn't change. Over many years out yearly kilowatts used remained the same.

Why do I require a 'smart meter'?

On the horizon I see that energy will be charged in timed bands. High cost 7 to 10, lower 10 to 12, extra high 12 to 14, etc. Each time band at a different rate and changing depending on weather, etc. This means nobody can have the faintest idea how much you bill will be per month - thus energy companies can charge what they like and you have no way of questioning this.
Big brother is coming down your electric supply!

In answer to your questions

We don't need these so called smart meters

The only tangible benefits are for the energy companies

The business case for this project is a farce and so called benefits will not be delivered by the programme - ever.

Consumers risk having data on their usage and habits sold and this data can be reconciled back to you when combined with other data that is available.

This programme promises to be one of the biggest rip offs of public money at £13bn

It has been accepted that cost of Smart Meter to consumers will be around £420

A sub £10 device from ebay and a free app can tell you all you need to know, some even measure the environment temp so you can get a full understanding on why your heating stayed on for longer.

Yes you are right about the facility to hike prices when you want a cup of tea or to heat your home.

I will NEVER allow one of these in my lifetime, I have no intention of leaving my current residence and I will resist any attempt to install one and not sign up to any Tariff or company that only offer only so called smart tariffs.

Write to the Advertising Standards Authority and complain about the misleading ads by Smart Energy UK, ask that they force them to add at the end Supposed benefits of cost reduction may be achieved WITHOUT a smart meter using free apps for your phone. Smart meters are estimated to cost £420 per household while a device to monitor appliances costs under £10."

System

RandomQ wrote: »

I wonder Hengus, we know meters go dumb if supplier is changed, I wonder if this protects them from remote shut off.

.

I think that it is reasonable to conclude that the lack of a data link/connection will eliminate the potential damage of a mass cyber attack on that meter. However, the real concern is the damage caused by an unbalanced Grid. A dumb meter in such a situation is bit like having a working tap but with a broken supply pipe.

It is also worth bearing in mind that SMETS2 meters can connect directly to the DCC and/or by a Wide Area Network (WiFi).

As far as ‘routine’ disconnections are concerned, there are reports that suppliers will not take the risk of remote disconnections/re-connections. It will still require the presence of a person to confirm that they have turned off the correct meter. Equally, turning on a gas meter, for example, will need someone present to confirm that the property owner is in and hasn’t left a gas tap on.

badmemory

RandomQ wrote: »

In answer to your questions

We don't need these so called smart meters

The only tangible benefits are for the energy companies

The business case for this project is a farce and so called benefits will not be delivered by the programme - ever.

Consumers risk having data on their usage and habits sold and this data can be reconciled back to you when combined with other data that is available.

This programme promises to be one of the biggest rip offs of public money at £13bn

It has been accepted that cost of Smart Meter to consumers will be around £420

A sub £10 device from ebay and a free app can tell you all you need to know, some even measure the environment temp so you can get a full understanding on why your heating stayed on for longer.

Yes you are right about the facility to hike prices when you want a cup of tea or to heat your home.

I will NEVER allow one of these in my lifetime, I have no intention of leaving my current residence and I will resist any attempt to install one and not sign up to any Tariff or company that only offer only so called smart tariffs.

Write to the Advertising Standards Authority and complain about the misleading ads by Smart Energy UK, ask that they force them to add at the end Supposed benefits of cost reduction may be achieved WITHOUT a smart meter using free apps for your phone. Smart meters are estimated to cost £420 per household while a device to monitor appliances costs under £10."

Whilst I totally agree with you - don't waste the price of the stamp. I tried it before they changed the advert to say you actually had to reduce your usage to reduce your costs. A Gaz & leccy ad that stated you WOULD save money is apparantly a completely acceptable lie! Wonder if they would accept this from Aldi & the like without them having absolute proof of what they said.

System

badmemory wrote: »

Whilst I totally agree with you - don't waste the price of the stamp. I tried it before they changed the advert to say you actually had to reduce your usage to reduce your costs. A Gaz & leccy ad that stated you WOULD save money is apparantly a completely acceptable lie! Wonder if they would accept this from Aldi & the like without them having absolute proof of what they said.

I have also tried and got nowhere. The ASA is just not interested. It is though prepared to take action against an advertiser that posts a photo of a woman ironing on the basis that it is sexist. We live in very strange times.

Anthorn

RandomQ wrote: »

I wonder Hengus, we know meters go dumb if supplier is changed, I wonder if this protects them from remote shut off.

Consider for example that when a SMETS1 meter is set to pre-pay mode and there is a switch of supplier the old supplier remotely sets the meter to credit mode and then if the new supplier wants to set the meter to pre-pay mode they fit a new meter.

The above assumes that each energy company fits a different brand of meter which at this time is not interoperable.

Therefore it's reasonable to conclude that when the smart meter goes dumb it is not possible to do anything remotely. But don't quote me on that lol.

MothballsWallet

mbmonty wrote: »

You are right except that we must not believe this 82% nonsense, if you look at the questions they ask they are very wish washy, more aware, honestly what a load of BS. The DUMB meters do not tell you that your old fridge freezer uses more energy than chernobyl or any other appliance.
<snipped as not relevant to my reply>

Chernobyl was a multiple reactor nuclear power station - it generated electricity not consume it, before the tragic fire in reactor 4.

Busybee13

I was coerced into having a smart meter fitted by EDF in June 2018. I didn't want one but they pestered me with phone calls, emails and letters in the post almost implying that it was law that I had to have one fitted. I was made to feel like I was doing something wrong by not having one. Despite my better judgement and knowing that I really didn't have to have one really, I gave in and took a day off work to have both electric and gas meters fitted. I have regretted it ever since, especially as I have heard horror stories in the press about what can sometimes happen with these meters, whether these stories are true or not, I'm not happy having them in my property. I have since changed supplier through MSE Energy Club and find they don't work with the new company. I have subsequently asked if I can have them changed back to normal meters and I've been told I have to pay £70 for the privilege! Plus I'll have to take the day off work again. What a pointless exercise, I'm so angry about the whole thing, particularly with EDF. My advice, don't get a smart meter, the only thing I can see they do of benefit is send meter readings but I'd rather just send in my own as I have always done.

PennineAcute

Why would you want them changed back to dumb meters, when you already have smart "dumb" meters?

zeupater

PennineAcute wrote: »

Why would you want them changed back to dumb meters, when you already have smart "dumb" meters?

Hi

Probably because an installation in June 2018 should have used meters which worked with any supplier as opposed to having been fitted as a tick box exercise to access allowable Smart-Meter enhanced margins.

All installed Smart-Meters that don't fully comply with the SMETS2 standards should be down to the energy industry to fund themselves without the ability to pass additional charges to the consumer ... after all, the standard dates back 6 years, it's just that the industry has been chasing numbers and profit as opposed to required functionality ... there's no reason for meters which don't fully comply to the latest standard that have been installed over something like the past 3 years as well as any installation that is unable to communicate directly with the DCC to not be struck from the installation database and reclassified as dumb, thus saving us all £billions on our bills ... up to spring last year there were only a handful of compliant meters installed out of a total of close to10million, many of which will never be able to operate as anything other than dumb, yet the industry can still charge for the benefits they (don't) deliver!

I expect that's got something to do with consumer anger on this subject .... we've been missold a vision that's simply not been delivered, moreover, it's unlikely that the perceived costed benefits will ever be achievable!

HTH
Z