Smart Meters

carl.waring

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

Oh dear. Just more "conspiracy theory" stuff and nonsense then 🙄

There are clear advantages for consumers that are well-publicised; example. There are also benefits for energy companies and the environment.

And the ‘example’ is meant to convince me that a smart meter is good for me? I think not; just pure marketing words that are not necessarily accurate. Who, in their right mind, is going to spend time looking at IHD, going upstairs to switch something off, back to IHD and so on and so on. So I can identify that the immersion heater guzzles electricity- wow! I’d love to meet an average family where everyone will adopt ‘good energy habits’ as a result of a smart meter. Some of us actually have a life to live so until they come up with something a lot more user friendly then I’ll take a lot more convincing than marketing blurb. 

I’m beginning to wonder if you have a vested interest in smart meter roll out!

Your example is (not too surprisingly) complete nonsense. Of course no-one is going to do that; and no-one is expecting them to. It's that in addition to using other measures including, as I mentioned and you ignored, the environmental benefits.

oldandwizend said:

matelodave said:

To my mind, the shear number of people on this forum who can't or wont or are just too idle to read their meters and then whine and whinge about ginormous bills are a good and valid reason for smart meters.

It might not be possible get them to actually check their bills but hopefully they wont end up trying to sort out several years worth of estimates.

Just my opinion you understand but I reckon hey should be compulsory rather than all this faffing around that's been going on for the past few years. Same with water meters.

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

And sod everyone else then? I'm alright jack? Yes. I read my meters too. But not everyone does. It's not all about you.

oldandwizend

carl.waring said:

oldandwizend said:

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

And sod everyone else then? I'm alright jack? Yes. I read my meters too. But not everyone does. It's not all about you.

And nowhere did I say it was! I would like to think I live in a world where one has a choice. Matelodave’s opinion is they should be compulsory! What next then; compulsion to have anything that some official (!) body thinks is good for you. 1984 here we come!

carl.waring

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

oldandwizend said:

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

And sod everyone else then? I'm alright jack? Yes. I read my meters too. But not everyone does. It's not all about you.

And nowhere did I say it was! I would like to think I live in a world where one has a choice. Matelodave’s opinion is they should be compulsory! What next then; compulsion to have anything that some official (!) body thinks is good for you. 1984 here we come!

And yet that's how your post came across. You're the one seemed to be making the "wild assumptions" that everyone's like you and takes readings all the time.

[Deleted User]

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

oldandwizend said:

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

And sod everyone else then? I'm alright jack? Yes. I read my meters too. But not everyone does. It's not all about you.

And nowhere did I say it was! I would like to think I live in a world where one has a choice. Matelodave’s opinion is they should be compulsory! What next then; compulsion to have anything that some official (!) body thinks is good for you. 1984 here we come!

Smart meters are but one part of a smart grid. The Energy Savings Trust explains why this is needed:

Quote:

With UK renewables setting new supply records, balancing the national grid with this fluctuating energy source is a pressing issue with a simple solution – smart meters.

On 8 December 2019, an unprecedented 45% of UK power was generated by windfarms. At times the blustery weather created more power than was needed. This energy surplus meant some people with smart meters in their homes were paid to use electricity.

The national grid has to take advantage of these renewable supply booms so that excess energy isn’t wasted. Consumers, too, can benefit with lower bills and smart meters are at the heart of the answer.

UK’s renewables record

On that windy December day, renewables contributed a record 16 gigawatts (GW) to the grid. A gigawatt is equivalent to one million kilowatt hours of electricity, enough to power around one million homes for an hour.

The third quarter of 2019 saw 40% of UK electricity generation come from renewables: 20% from wind, 12% from biomass and six per cent from solar. In contrast, the UK generated 6.9% of all of its electricity via renewables in 2010.

This is thanks in part to more capacity as offshore windfarms open – Hornsea One (1,200 megawatt (MW)) came online in October, following Beatrice (588 MW) earlier in 2019.  Dogger Bank (5GW), Royal Crown seabed sites and a series of Scottish projects – on land and offshore – will be online before 2030, adding a further 8GW.

These developments will help the UK achieve its goal to create a third of its electricity through windfarms by 2030.

The projects also take advantage of bigger, cheaper and easier to install windfarms, all of which helps to lower prices.

By 2050, the Committee on Climate Change wants the UK to produce 75GW through wind power alone.

Benefits of change to renewable energy sources

The national grid used to be supplied by around 80 enormous power stations. It’s now powered by around a million small and local grid suppliers using wind turbines, hydro and solar. When the electricity supply to the grid is more consistent, fewer fossil fuels are used at power stations, cutting carbon emissions, vital to fighting climate change.

Renewable energy sources are not consistent, however, creating supply and demand issues.

Smart meters are key to making sure the national grid remains balanced during times of excess renewable energy creation.

Unquote

matelodave

oldandwizend said:

matelodave said:

To my mind, the shear number of people on this forum who can't or wont or are just too idle to read their meters and then whine and whinge about ginormous bills are a good and valid reason for smart meters.

It might not be possible get them to actually check their bills but hopefully they wont end up trying to sort out several years worth of estimates.

Just my opinion you understand but I reckon hey should be compulsory rather than all this faffing around that's been going on for the past few years. Same with water meters.

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

I didn't make any assumptions, I also am capable of reading my meter. checking my bills and keeping my own records but I'm not one of those who get ginormous bills or whinge and moan about them.

Its seems that that those who haven't bothered are now getting their winter bills in and getting in a panic - just look at the number of "high energy" bill problems that are now coming into the forum.

A._Badger

[Deleted User] said:

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

oldandwizend said:

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one. 

And sod everyone else then? I'm alright jack? Yes. I read my meters too. But not everyone does. It's not all about you.

And nowhere did I say it was! I would like to think I live in a world where one has a choice. Matelodave’s opinion is they should be compulsory! What next then; compulsion to have anything that some official (!) body thinks is good for you. 1984 here we come!

Smart meters are but one part of a smart grid. The Energy Savings Trust explains why this is needed:

Quote:

With UK renewables setting new supply records, balancing the national grid with this fluctuating energy source is a pressing issue with a simple solution – smart meters.

On 8 December 2019, an unprecedented 45% of UK power was generated by windfarms. At times the blustery weather created more power than was needed. This energy surplus meant some people with smart meters in their homes were paid to use electricity.

The national grid has to take advantage of these renewable supply booms so that excess energy isn’t wasted. Consumers, too, can benefit with lower bills and smart meters are at the heart of the answer.

UK’s renewables record

On that windy December day, renewables contributed a record 16 gigawatts (GW) to the grid. A gigawatt is equivalent to one million kilowatt hours of electricity, enough to power around one million homes for an hour.

The third quarter of 2019 saw 40% of UK electricity generation come from renewables: 20% from wind, 12% from biomass and six per cent from solar. In contrast, the UK generated 6.9% of all of its electricity via renewables in 2010.

This is thanks in part to more capacity as offshore windfarms open – Hornsea One (1,200 megawatt (MW)) came online in October, following Beatrice (588 MW) earlier in 2019.  Dogger Bank (5GW), Royal Crown seabed sites and a series of Scottish projects – on land and offshore – will be online before 2030, adding a further 8GW.

These developments will help the UK achieve its goal to create a third of its electricity through windfarms by 2030.

The projects also take advantage of bigger, cheaper and easier to install windfarms, all of which helps to lower prices.

By 2050, the Committee on Climate Change wants the UK to produce 75GW through wind power alone.

Benefits of change to renewable energy sources

The national grid used to be supplied by around 80 enormous power stations. It’s now powered by around a million small and local grid suppliers using wind turbines, hydro and solar. When the electricity supply to the grid is more consistent, fewer fossil fuels are used at power stations, cutting carbon emissions, vital to fighting climate change.

Renewable energy sources are not consistent, however, creating supply and demand issues.

Smart meters are key to making sure the national grid remains balanced during times of excess renewable energy creation.

Unquote

So, in essence, for the sake of chasing a chimera, we have stepped back over 100 years, from a time when a simple switch provided energy on demand at a consistent level and price, to one where it will be rationed and, no doubt, prohibitively priced when the self-styled 'Green' approach fails to deliver (which it inevitably will and at the times when it is most needed - winter anticyclone conditions).
Some, apparently, consider this progress. 

carl.waring

Well, if you want to look at the world pessimistically and not wanting to move forward with technology, yes I suppose so 🙄🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
To me, though, what Dolor quoted makes perfect sense.

A._Badger

carl.waring said:

Well, if you want to look at the world pessimistically and not wanting to move forward with technology, yes I suppose so 🙄🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
To me, though, what Dolor quoted makes perfect sense.

You seem to have missed my point. What I do no want to do is move backwards due to 'technology'.. 

carl.waring

Over 100 years ago there were a lot less people in the UK (and the world) and therefore all that was needed was "a simple switch" to provide "energy on demand at a consistent level and price". Things have moved on and we can now no-longer cope with that what with things like 24-hour societies, people working over-nights, etc. So more and more things requiring energy, etc.

Time change. We have to change with them.

A._Badger

carl.waring said:

Over 100 years ago there were a lot less people in the UK (and the world) and therefore all that was needed was "a simple switch" to provide "energy on demand at a consistent level and price". Things have moved on and we can now no-longer cope with that what with things like 24-hour societies, people working over-nights, etc. So more and more things requiring energy, etc.

Time change. We have to change with them.

Fossil fuel reserves are sufficient to provide hundreds of years of energy. even at accelerated levels of consumption, during which period (assuming we don't blow ourselves up in the meantime) there is plenty of time to develop technology that actually works - unlike the hugely subsidised wind nonsense, which fails at almost every level. .Considered logically, the EST even  admits this when it talks of balancing demand with supply. That needs to be done, they are admiitting, because windmills can never been relied upon to meet demand.. Even the most zealous 'Greens' worked that out a decade ago, which is why they dropped the myth about 'peak oil' in favour of 'global warming'.

Meanwhile, times do not really change. We change the times, usually because we fall for some ism or other (choose your preferred ism from the 20th Century)  and that is precisely what is going on here.  'Smart Meters' exist to make energy companies more money and politicians more popular with people who are easily manipulated  by touchy-feely spin. I see no reason to encourage them.  So I don't.