Smart Meters

carl.waring

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

Before any conspiracy theorists start to weigh in, the relevant word being "could"?  There's always the possibility of these things being implemented. Just like there's always the possibility of another lockdown (😉) or your being hit by a car when crossing the road. Doesn't mean they will and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing if they are necessary or required.

They may be from reputable sources but surely the point is if they can be ‘controlled’ by suppliers then they are prone to hacking. If even banks and governments can be hacked I don’t hold out much hope for the security of smart meters based on the industry’s history of how it treats its customers. 

Don't get a mobile phone then, or a computer, 'cos they can both be hacked as well 🙄

oldandwizend

Don't get a mobile phone then, or a computer, 'cos they can both be hacked as well 🙄

One major difference. With a personally owned mobile or computer I control the device and can take all necessary steps to protect them and I consider myself trustworthy. I cannot control the smart meter and, as history tells us, you cannot trust utility companies. 

With regard to Huawei, I thought the Chinese knew everything there was to know about inconveniencing the rest of the world!

carl.waring

oldandwizend said:

Don't get a mobile phone then, or a computer, 'cos they can both be hacked as well 🙄

One major difference. With a personally owned mobile or computer I control the device and can take all necessary steps to protect them and I consider myself trustworthy. I cannot control the smart meter and, as history tells us, you cannot trust utility companies. 

With regard to Huawei, I thought the Chinese knew everything there was to know about inconveniencing the rest of the world!

I've never had problem with any of mine since I started living on my own in the late '90s. As, I suspect, have the (silent) majority of people. (People are more likely to complain than compliment. Which is why you hear bad stories in the news but not good ones.)

[Deleted User]

oldandwizend said:

carl.waring said:

Before any conspiracy theorists start to weigh in, the relevant word being "could"?  There's always the possibility of these things being implemented. Just like there's always the possibility of another lockdown (😉) or your being hit by a car when crossing the road. Doesn't mean they will and it doesn't mean it's a bad thing if they are necessary or required.

They may be from reputable sources but surely the point is if they can be ‘controlled’ by suppliers then they are prone to hacking. If even banks and governments can be hacked I don’t hold out much hope for the security of smart meters based on the industry’s history of how it treats its customers. 

I agree that there is a risk that anything that connects to a Network can be hacked. In the event that there was a successful mass attack on smart meters in your local area then having an old analogue meter is not going to guarantee you supply. The risk of a mass smart meter disconnection is that it unbalances and could cause significant damage to the Grid. With this in mind, UK smart meter security was developed by GCHQ and it is based on a multi-layered approach. There is a risk but it is considered to be very small. 

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/the-smart-security-behind-the-gb-smart-metering-system

matelodave

Gerry1 said:

carl.waring said:

You really think all these Smart Meters aren't from reputable sources?

Treat yourself to a Huawei Smart Meter with Narrowband Internet of Things connectivity.

Go on, you know you want one !  What could possibly go wrong?

Gerry, I've got a lot of respect for most of your pronouncements on this forum most of which are useful and well thought out but I just cannot understand your obsession with smart meters.

Gerry1

Not an obsession, but the real reason for smart meters isn't well publicised.

It may be that we should should skimp on building new power stations and end up in a situation similar that that in Southern Africa where Load Limiting takes place routinely and there are rolling power cuts (Load Shedding) when the going gets rough.

My objection is the stealthy way that the rollout is being promoted, it's less than honest.  You don't really think that it makes sense to spend £475 on devices that may save you just £11 per year?  Would you open a savings account that paid you £11 interest per year but your £475 capital was gone for ever?  So there's obviously a less publicised agenda.

But others can make the case against smart meters far better than I can.  The miserable £11 savings figure comes from a damning report, Not So Smart, published by the British Infrastructure Group - a stellar group of MPs and lords chaired by Grant Shapps MP who work to promote better infrastructure across the UK.  The report was co-signed by 93 MPs and peers from different political parties.

Curiously, the website for the The British Infrastructure Group has now disappeared, and its Not So Smart report is only available with great difficulty via an archive search.  I wonder why? 

carl.waring

Oh dear. Just more "conspiracy theory" stuff and nonsense then 🙄

There are clear advantages for consumers that are well-publicised; example. There are also benefits for energy companies and the environment.

matelodave

To my mind, the shear number of people on this forum who can't or wont or are just too idle to read their meters and then whine and whinge about ginormous bills are a good and valid reason for smart meters.

It might not be possible get them to actually check their bills but hopefully they wont end up trying to sort out several years worth of estimates.

Just my opinion you understand but I reckon hey should be compulsory rather than all this faffing around that's been going on for the past few years. Same with water meters.

oldandwizend

carl.waring said:

Oh dear. Just more "conspiracy theory" stuff and nonsense then 🙄

There are clear advantages for consumers that are well-publicised; example. There are also benefits for energy companies and the environment.

And the ‘example’ is meant to convince me that a smart meter is good for me? I think not; just pure marketing words that are not necessarily accurate. Who, in their right mind, is going to spend time looking at IHD, going upstairs to switch something off, back to IHD and so on and so on. So I can identify that the immersion heater guzzles electricity- wow! I’d love to meet an average family where everyone will adopt ‘good energy habits’ as a result of a smart meter. Some of us actually have a life to live so until they come up with something a lot more user friendly then I’ll take a lot more convincing than marketing blurb. 

I’m beginning to wonder if you have a vested interest in smart meter roll out!

oldandwizend

matelodave said:

To my mind, the shear number of people on this forum who can't or wont or are just too idle to read their meters and then whine and whinge about ginormous bills are a good and valid reason for smart meters.

It might not be possible get them to actually check their bills but hopefully they wont end up trying to sort out several years worth of estimates.

Just my opinion you understand but I reckon hey should be compulsory rather than all this faffing around that's been going on for the past few years. Same with water meters.

I, and I suspect a number of other forumites, actually read my meter and submit readings monthly. I also have historical records going back a number of years and know exactly how much energy I use so please do not make wild assumptions. 

Agreed smart meters will produce accurate bills and may, in time, prove beneficial when ‘time of use’ tariffs become the norm but until then I still see no benefit in having one.