Smart Meters

Tula100

I would use Autoswitch IF there was an option to specify NO Smart Meter!

And I have no problem giving my readings online every month.

matchmade2

I'm sure this has been commented on before, but the features on these so-called smart meters are very poor. What consumers really want to know is what does *each specific device* cost to run in real time. "Just how much is my tumble-drier costing me?" is useful information, because you can then do a cost-benefit calculation about whether to buy a more efficient appliance, or consider switching to a cheaper time of day (if your tariff allows this). But all these new meters do is show your total energy use at one point in time across the whole house. What is the point of that? I have the heating on, so it's costing me more money - well, duh!

I am being pressed by Scottish Power to install a SMETS2 meter, despite there being no information about this requirement when I started the tariff, and I can't find anything in the T&Cs. I am extremely reluctant to install one, because as far as I can see, there's zero gain for me. These devices are purely for the benefit of power companies, so they can switch consumers to half-hourly pricing. This means consumers will never know how much they are paying each time they switch a device on, and it is bound to lead to higher bills. The power companies want to push the responsibility for energy management onto us, the consumer, not just in overall useage terms, but also in time terms, to drive a change in our behaviour. They *want* us to be constantly worrying, half hour by half hour, about our energy costs, and they have the cheek to claim this is a "smart" improvement, more "choice" and other such marketing rubbish!

matchmade2

I forgot to add: I have a SMETS1 meter, but of course it no longer works after 6 months when I changed supplier. What an enormous waste of time and effort, and such utter stupidity by the industry that created those useless devices and the government agency that approved them!

The meter was a novelty for perhaps two days, because it showed your energy useage in pounds and pence, but we very quickly stopped even noticing it, because it's so dumb and useless. It doesn't actually help you in any real practical situation. "I've just gone round and switched off all the lights" we'd announce, and the meter read-out would barely change. Thanks for that. "I've turned on the tumble drier", and the meter reading would go up: how amazing! Who wold have expected that! Does this mean we are going to modify our behaviour? No, because who wants to spend their life constantly looking at a smart meter screen and micro-managing their energy use? And anyway, we can't run the tumble drier in the (cheaper) middle of the night because it's noisy, beeps loudly and repeatedly for an hour at the end of its cycle (the manual shows no way to turn this off), and none of us would get any sleep!

So what exactly is the point of these stupid devices? They make no difference to your behaviour because it tells you what you already know: it's cheaper to use expensive devices at night, you can't change the main electricity user (the fridge-freezer), and it costs you money every time you put on the heating. Big deal! It apparently does away with the need for estimated bills. Again, big deal! I *like* estimated bills - sometimes you're in credit (summertime), sometimes in debit (winter), but at least you are paying the same amount every month and can settle up at some point or make a reclaim, maybe once a year. The point is it's *easy*, whereas with smart meters you no longer know what you're paying from one half hour to the next, and you are forced to pay different amounts every month, which is seriously bad news for one's budgeting, especially in winter.

[Deleted User]

matchmade2 said:

...... whereas with smart meters you no longer know what you're paying from one half hour to the next, and you are forced to pay different amounts every month, which is seriously bad news for one's budgeting, especially in winter.

I am not going to defend the rollout of smart meters but your statement cannot go unchallenged. I know precisely the cost of my energy from one day to the next. For example, yesterday we consumed 3.231kWhs of electricity at a total cost of 41.7p including standing charge and VAT. This information is available on the IHD; in my online account and in various third-party apps.

My supplier does not change my monthly DD amount, I do, based on the evidence in front of me. 

I agree that smart meters do not provide detailed information on individual appliance usage. If this level of granularity is needed then Octopus is offering a good deal (50% discount)  on the Voltaware Sensor.

https://voltaware.com/

victor2

matchmade2 said:

... Again, big deal! I *like* estimated bills - sometimes you're in credit (summertime), sometimes in debit (winter), but at least you are paying the same amount every month and can settle up at some point or make a reclaim, maybe once a year. The point is it's *easy*, whereas with smart meters you no longer know what you're paying from one half hour to the next, and you are forced to pay different amounts every month, which is seriously bad news for one's budgeting, especially in winter.

Aren't you mixing up the idea of fixed direct debits with estimated readings?

Fixed direct debits work as you describe, if they are correctly set. Estimated readings are invariably bad news, as the supplier has to guess what your reading was at a particular time. When they eventually get an actual reading, your account could be considerably in debit or credit, depending on how the estimates varied from reality.

Smart meters (when they actually are smart) mean the supplier gets actual readings, but does not currently mean you still can't be on a fixed direct debit tariff.

Of course, allowing sophisticated time-of-use tariffs to be introduced will require smart metering, and will indeed make it difficult to manually monitor your usage cost. That may well be what the future holds, so perhaps we should just enjoy our "simpler" tariffs for now.

oldandwizend

On balance I’m with matchmade2 on this. I have been persistently badgered to have smart meters by suppliers I have been with since such meters became available but, when challenged, they all agree that there is no cost benefit to me. In fact, at present, the opposite is true as I, along with all other customers, are having to cover the cost of installation in our tariffs. If people feel that a smart meter may benefit them then they can pay for it! I would agree that if smart meters actually become smart by breaking down use by appliance (highly unlikely I suspect) and/or when tariffs that are time specific for, at least, the majority of suppliers, are available then there may be a case for installation. Until then no thank you.

[Deleted User]

oldandwizend said:

On balance I’m with matchmade2 on this. I have been persistently badgered to have smart meters by suppliers I have been with since such meters became available but, when challenged, they all agree that there is no cost benefit to me. In fact, at present, the opposite is true as I, along with all other customers, are having to cover the cost of installation in our tariffs. If people feel that a smart meter may benefit them then they can pay for it! I would agree that if smart meters actually become smart by breaking down use by appliance (highly unlikely I suspect) and/or when tariffs that are time specific for, at least, the majority of suppliers, are available then there may be a case for installation. Until then no thank you.

Sadly, that is not how Government led policies are paid for. We either pay for them with our taxes or by a levy. You are of course entitled to your view but I suspect that, whilst you can hold out for a while, market forces will come into play. For example, Ofgem has already said that when an analogue meter needs to be replaced, and the homeowner refuses a smart meter, that a charge can be levied. I believe that we will also see the differential between smart and non smart meter tariffs increasing as the smart meter roll out reaches 50%+.

Over the 18 months that I have had my SMETS2 meters, I have saved £100s simply by engaging with the time-of-use tariffs that are already on the market but I agree 100% that a smart meter is just a meter. It is how one uses the information that it provides that leads to savings.

carl.waring

Dolor said:

Over the 18 months that I have had my SMETS2 meters, I have saved £100s simply by engaging with the time-of-use tariffs that are already on the market but I agree 100% that a smart meter is just a meter. It is how one uses the information that it provides that leads to savings.

Exactly 100% correct. Anyone who says different is wrong. (and that includes energy company personnel.)

oldandwizend

Agreed time of use tariffs could lead to cost savings but a smart meter itself will not help. All the meter will tell you is how much power you are using at the time/daily/monthly. Only by knowing which appliances are using power, and when, can you realistically fine tune their operation to tie in with time of use tariff and current smart meters are of no assistance in achieving this; all they will do is give you an accurate bill based on time of use.
Interesting point about possible compulsory levying of charge for refusing a smart meter. If a smart meter benefits the supplier no doubt they will be telling me my existing meter needs replacing even though it is has years of good use left!
Like most MSE ‘supporters’ I take an interest in how my money is spent and spend some time seeking best deals etc. but I suspect that for a very high percentage of the ‘rest of the population’ all smart meters mean is making an appointment and possibly having to take time off work to have them fitted with no thought given to the possibility of actually saving money.

adam250

Has anybody known of smart meters causing electrical faults within the house. Strange one but we had a smart meter installed by British Gas in October seemed all fine, recently changed supplier and now our boiler is firing up by itself even if hot water or heating is not being demanded. We have isolated all electrical fault possibilities within the house, boiler, wiring, programmer so really confused. Seems very strange it has coincided with the switch to a different supplier too!