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Copy of signed credit agreement

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Hi
About 7 or so years ago we purchased a car through car finance and couldn't keep up the repayments and it got repossessed a few months later.About 6 months after that we had a letter through the door from a debt collection agency (Thames Credit)requesting over £7,000 left owing on the finance agreement.The car was only worth about £3,000,so we thought as it had been repossessed and sold off,how on earth did they get this sum of money.Anyway,we were alot younger then and after having lots of harassing letters from the debt company,after about a year made a payment plan with them to pay so much per month.Stupidly we never asked for a breakdown of figures,just felt very bullied,were young with young children,and scared of the thought of legal action.However,now a bit older and wiser,the debt is still with us,now owe £6,000 even though this debt has been passed on to another debt collection agency.(Buchanan clark and wells)Being older and reading this forum,we decided to write the letter asking for a copy of the signed agreement,stating credit acts etc,as we felt why should we just pay when we don't know where the amount has come from.
Buchanan clark and wells reply was that as we have been paying the debt slowly off,why has it taken so long to request this and they do not have to give this information out as they do not have it anyway as they are just a debt collection agency.I explained that it was unfair of them to expect us to keep paying without seeing a breakdown in figures as to how they arrived at this figure and their reply was that i am only 1 more warning letter away from court action anyway and they'd get back to me.In other words the next letter from them will be court.They told me to phone Thames credit for a copy of the agreement,but when i did they said one doesn't exist with them as they do not keep copies of agreements as they are a collection agency.
What do i do?Keep paying after i've sent them the letter telling them i'm not paying any more until i get a copy of the agreement and say no more on the matter,or go to court?Or are they bluffing?Help plz
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Comments

  • Crabman
    Crabman Posts: 9,942 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    There's a template letter you can send off and ask for a copy of the signed credit agreement, apparently if they can't provide that within a certain amount of time, you can ask them to stop chasing you.



    With thanks to moonrakermagpie for pointing this out:
    Account number - xxxxxxxxxx
    This letter in no way acknowledges that I hold a debt with your organisation or any other.
    With reference to the above account, I would like the following information provided to me at your earliest convenience.
    1. A true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number XXXXXXXX.
    2. The deed of assignment allowing you to collect this debt
    3. A statement of account
    I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that you cease chasing this unsubstantiated debt.
    Here is the original thread - I'm sure someone else will be along to advise better, but hopefully this gives a general idea :o
  • rog2
    rog2 Posts: 11,650 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    jonnyboy35 wrote: »
    Buchanan clark and wells reply was that as we have been paying the debt slowly off,why has it taken so long to request this and they do not have to give this information out as they do not have it anyway as they are just a debt collection agency.

    Why am I not surprised at this reply by BCW? The answer, jb, is simple - without supplying you with a copy of the original cca, BCW can, no longer try to enforce the agreement. Even if they 'miraculously' find it now, they can, no longer enforce it without first applying to the courts for a court order.
    It does NOT matter whether BCW were the original lender or not - anyone trying to collect a debt must, by law, provide a copy of the cca, plus statement of account, when requested.

    Let them take you to court - this 'debt' is now 'irrideemably unenforceable'.

    You would be within your rights to ask for a full refund of any money that these 'chancers' have taken from you in relation to the 'alleged debt'.
    I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
    If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.

    HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7

    DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS
  • Thankyou all for your replies.Crabman,that is more or less what i wrote to them.I used the template letter i found on this forum.
    Rog2 - Any idea what i should do now?Do i write them another letter as they have basically ignored the letter i originally sent them and are threatening court if i don't pay any more money?Is there another template follow up letter i can send on to them before i get threatened with court?And does it matter that i've been paying money monthly to them to ask for a copy of the agreement so late in the day so to speak?
  • Crabman
    Crabman Posts: 9,942 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Did you send it registered or do you have proof of delivery? Have they confirmed receipt at all?

    If they don't supply that within 28 days I think (don't count on this though :o) they have to stop pursuing you.
  • I telephoned them this afternoon and they said they had received it.Just wondered if there was a follow up letter i could send to them,just don't like the idea of waiting for a court letter or hoping i don't hear from them again.
    I'd really like to know in writing where i stand.
  • RAS
    RAS Posts: 35,549 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Crabman wrote: »
    Did you send it registered or do you have proof of delivery? Have they confirmed receipt at all?

    If they don't supply that within 28 days I think (don't count on this though :o) they have to stop pursuing you.

    They have 12+2 days to reply. After that, they can only pursue you for the debt if they go to court to get permission, for which they will need the CCA. If you sent the letter registered post, or they have replied to you quoting receipt of your letter, then you can soon tell them to go away, but you would be advised to have something in writing ackowledging that they do not have the CCA. After another 30 days (12+2+30), you can tell them to bog off and they cannot enforce the debt.
    If you've have not made a mistake, you've made nothing
  • SPANIEL36
    SPANIEL36 Posts: 1,905 Forumite
    rog2 or someone equally fantasic will comfirm this. You sent them a letter reqesting CCA. you now have to wait 12 days + 2 days + 30 days. if they cannot provide you with the cca etc then they cannot chase you for this money. there is another template letter on here somewhere written by weller that you send to them after all these days have passed. i'll try and find it and post it here

    found it. the letter you'll want next is post 6 in orange
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=572159
  • rog2
    rog2 Posts: 11,650 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    jonnyboy35 wrote: »
    Rog2 - Any idea what i should do now?Do i write them another letter as they have basically ignored the letter i originally sent them and are threatening court if i don't pay any more money?Is there another template follow up letter i can send on to them before i get threatened with court?And does it matter that i've been paying money monthly to them to ask for a copy of the agreement so late in the day so to speak?

    I DID find a good template letter, but can't find it at the moment.
    Weller711 is the 'resident expert' on cca's and has, successfully claimed back monies already paid, when dca's were unable to supply the documents.

    Hopefully she will see this thread, but have a look at her letter on the following link:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=6520151#post6520121

    You may need to amend it, slightly, to suit your circumstances, but it should do the trick.
    I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
    If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.

    HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7

    DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS
  • Rog2 - Thankyou thankyou thankyou.Thats just what i needed.Brilliant.I'll amend it and send it off first thing in the morning.
    Spaniel36 - Brilliant.I'll copy that letter and get it off when the days have passed.
    Thankyou everyone for replying.We were getting sick with the worry from it all.Can't thankyou all enough.
  • rog2
    rog2 Posts: 11,650 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    jonnyboy35 wrote: »
    Thankyou everyone for replying.We were getting sick with the worry from it all.Can't thankyou all enough.

    You're more than welcome, jb. :beer:
    I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
    If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.

    HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7

    DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS
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