Refusing to pay money owed to eBay

soolin

GDB2222 wrote: »

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean?

I am a bit perplexed by one thing. Does anyone here really think that it's a fair result that the buyer was allowed to keep a valuable wedding dress AND get their money back? Surely, at the least, it needed to be returned in the condition it was in when received?

Note where Custardy's profile shows him to be!

As we saw in the recent thread about the caravan, seller is entitled to their item back - they need to ask for it and supply return postage within a sensible time frame- they cannot however expect to sell something that is not as described and just claim 'buyer beware'. At no point was seller expected to lose both money and dress- however, they may well have lost the opportunity to reclaim the dress by now.

IF OP is still reading this- then depending on time frame you need to send a letter (copy by email) to buyer asking them to keep the item safely until you can arrange for its return. Assuming you are still in time to do this you would need to find a way of supplying postage to the buyer for the safe return of the dress.You might already be too late as once the paypal case was found in buyers favour paypal will have assumed you didn't want the dress so buyer may well have disposed of it- but it's worth a try.

GDB2222

soolin wrote: »

Note where Custardy's profile shows him to be!

As we saw in the recent thread about the caravan, seller is entitled to their item back - they need to ask for it and supply return postage within a sensible time frame- they cannot however expect to sell something that is not as described and just claim 'buyer beware'. At no point was seller expected to lose both money and dress- however, they may well have lost the opportunity to reclaim the dress by now.

IF OP is still reading this- then depending on time frame you need to send a letter (copy by email) to buyer asking them to keep the item safely until you can arrange for its return. Assuming you are still in time to do this you would need to find a way of supplying postage to the buyer for the safe return of the dress.You might already be too late as once the paypal case was found in buyers favour paypal will have assumed you didn't want the dress so buyer may well have disposed of it- but it's worth a try.

It's not really up to paypal/ebay to authorise the buyer to dispose of the dress.

soolin

GDB2222 wrote: »

It's not really up to paypal/ebay to authorise the buyer to dispose of the dress.

Which is why sellers can step in and have item returned, but they need to be quick. usually if we have this sort of thread from the buyer we suggest holding an item for a reasonable time frame, it does depend on the size. Obviously if it is a small item it might not be unreasonable to hold it for 28 days while seller arranges to collect, perhaps for a larger item a week might be more appropriate.

When the case was open seller could have requested a return at that point as well, if they had supplied the return postage.

GDB2222

soolin wrote: »

Which is why sellers can step in and have item returned, but they need to be quick. usually if we have this sort of thread from the buyer we suggest holding an item for a reasonable time frame, it does depend on the size. Obviously if it is a small item it might not be unreasonable to hold it for 28 days while seller arranges to collect, perhaps for a larger item a week might be more appropriate.

When the case was open seller could have requested a return at that point as well, if they had supplied the return postage.

They don't need to be anywhere near that quick. You/ebay seem to be ignoring the law completely. At the very least, the law of bailment would apply here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailment

I also think the ebay adjudication process does not comply with the Arbitration Act 1996.

soolin

GDB2222 wrote: »

They don't need to be anywhere near that quick. You/ebay seem to be ignoring the law completely. At the very least, the law of bailment would apply here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailment

I also think the ebay adjudication process does not comply with the Arbitration Act 1996.

Sorry, but loans and leases where someone does not take possession of an item applies how?

"Bailment describes a legal relationship in common law where physical possession of personal property, or a chattel, is transferred from one person (the "bailor") to another person (the "bailee") who subsequently has possession of the property. It arises when a person gives property to someone else for safekeeping, and is a cause of action independent of contract or tort." .

You are surely not suggesting that if I buy something on ebay I am merely keeping it for the seller for safekeeping ?

Bailment is distinguished from a contract of sale or a gift of property, as it only involves the transfer of possession and not its ownership.

I think that explains the difference between this and a sale. I could see this applying if for instance buyer bought a wedding dress and received a book instead but not where the item purchased was received.

GabbaGabbaHey

RMS2 wrote: »

For some reason (have a guess) ebay does not like to go to court before a judge. Perhaps their practices would not stand up tp scrutiny in UK courts?

RMS2 wrote: »

Any T&C contract details can be tested in a UK court. For some reason ebay doesn't want to test them. I wonder why.

Simple - the cost of advising counsel would vastly outweigh the £300 or so that's at stake here. There is no chance that their practices would be in any way unlawful - they have a large legal department who will have ensured this.

The OP signed up to eBay's Ts&Cs when they opened their account. eBay have followed the process that they described - as a result of which they are out of pocket, and the OP has both a legal and a moral duty to repay them the money owed.

scd3scd4

GabbaGabbaHey wrote: »

Simple - the cost of advising counsel would vastly outweigh the £300 or so that's at stake here. There is no chance that their practices would be in any way unlawful - they have a large legal department who will have ensured this.

The OP signed up to eBay's Ts&Cs when they opened their account. eBay have followed the process that they described - as a result of which they are out of pocket, and the OP has both a legal and a moral duty to repay them the money owed.

They are not out of anything. The OP made it clear they are not repaying anything and they don't care about being banned. What happens after that no one knows. We are more interested than them as they have moved on. ;-]

Tealblue

Clearly nobody knows what they're talking about, so why not end this increasingly pointless thread?

GabbaGabbaHey

scd3scd4 wrote: »

They are not out of anything.

But they are. eBay have refunded the buyer the £365 out of eBay's own funds - and they are (quite correctly) chasing the seller to repay this debt.

So currently:

Buyer - has their money back, and an altered wedding dress (which they should probably send back to the seller, as long as the seller pays the postage).

Seller - has £365 (of money which doesn't belong to them), and no longer has their altered dress.

eBay - has refunded £365 to the buyer, and has no money or dress.

Other honest eBay users - had nothing to do with all this, but will probably end up paying the £365 which the Seller has defrauded from eBay.

GDB2222

"Defrauded"? That's way OTT. Withholding payment until a court has decided the debt is valid is not fraud. That statement is libellous, and a mod should take it down.

Besides that, I am sure that ebay charge just as much as they think they can get away with, so this is not going to impact on other users.