Refusing to pay money owed to eBay

soolin

GDB2222 wrote: »

They are not legally owed it until a court has made a ruling.

How do you make that out? Does that mean my gas bill isn't a debt then because only the gas people have asked for it and they haven't been to court to enforce it?

soolin

GDB2222 wrote: »

The OP signed up, expecting a fair and reasonable arbitration agreement. If, in practice, the ebay arbitration process is not fair and reasonable, he has a reasonable argument that he does not owe ebay any money.

Ebay can't enforce the debt without a court order, and the OP would be well-advised to defend any proceedings.

In practice, I suspect that ebay will not issue proceedings.

There is no arbitration on eBay, so where do you think the OP signed up for arbitration? Legally a buyer has a right to get an item that is fairly and accurately described, the OP says in their Opening post that the dress had been resized and also that buyer had concerns about other damage. eBay never saw the dress , they couldn't arbitrate as to whether the dress was as described or not as they didn't have it.

As is usual on eBay, and as we would have advised the seller if they had asked here, a seller will rarely ever win a SNAD case as the law and the way eBay work, is almost entirely in the buyers favour. However seller had the right to have the dress back if they had chosen to arrange postage but by disputing the return the buyer received the refund without need to return.

In the unlikely event that any court would hear a dispute against eBay's decision what proof could seller have that buyer wasn't telling the truth, especially as they appear to admit that it was resized.

likelyfran

Would be interesting to hear back from OP as to whether the resizing was mentioned in listing description because it definitely should have been.
For a garment like that, it would be best form to list all the exact measurements/dimensions in the description, maybe OP did but just never specified that dress had been resized to those dimensions, maybe buyer took exception that the dress had been altered from, basically, the exact original design.
Does seem rather robotic the way eBay works though.
Surely it can't be too difficult for whoever things are escalated to, to read through listing descriptions and member messages to see exactly what has transpired, and to apply common sense - perhaps OP was originally in the right with this, had declared everything, including resizing at time of listing, and buyer just didn't like the dress when they had it in their hands.

soolin

likelyfran wrote: »

Would be interesting to hear back from OP as to whether the resizing was mentioned in listing description because it definitely should have been.
For a garment like that, it would be best form to list all the exact measurements/dimensions in the description, maybe OP did but just never specified that dress had been resized to those dimensions, maybe buyer took exception that the dress had been altered from, basically, the exact original design.
Does seem rather robotic the way eBay works though.
Surely it can't be too difficult for whoever things are escalated to, to read through listing descriptions and member messages to see exactly what has transpired, and to apply common sense - perhaps OP was originally in the right with this, had declared everything, including resizing at time of listing, and buyer just didn't like the dress when they had it in their hands.

I'm not sure what reading the listing in this instance would achieve. Buyer's claim was that there were faults that were not advertised in original listing. So although a rep could read the description and read what the buyer says is wrong. , without the dress how can they decide who is right? Also, we all moan already about our eBay fees, how much more are sellers prepared to pay to provide for all these extra reps to arbitrate on disputes, I suspect that with thousands of sales a day the number of disputes is also quite high.

Brooker_Dave

What other paid for money transfer service for private sales reverses payments and allows customers to keep the goods?

likelyfran

OP said they 'detailed the dress defects'.
I'm taking them at their word.
Also, in my experience of ebay reps, they don't need to employ more reps, they just need to employ reps with better comprehension capabilities and less tendency to just throw out stock 'I'm here to help' phrases whilst not reading your initial details then asking you what they are several exchanges later.

likelyfran

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

What other paid for money transfer service for private sales reverses payments and allows customers to keep the goods?

Agree, can't see a thank button on your comment for some reason.

soolin

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

What other paid for money transfer service for private sales reverses payments and allows customers to keep the goods?

Amazon.

I don't use marketplace sellers any more due to issues but where I have had problems that a seller disputes or refuses to acknowledge I have always got my money back and have not had to return the goods.

soolin

likelyfran wrote: »

OP said they 'detailed the dress defects'.
I'm taking them at their word.
Also, in my experience of ebay reps, they don't need to employ more reps, they just need to employ reps with better comprehension capabilities and less tendency to just throw out stock 'I'm here to help' phrases whilst not reading your initial details then asking you what they are several exchanges later.

So if I sell say a tea set and describe it as perfect but actually hide a chip in the rim of the tea pot or such like with a clever photography and buyer complained I would win a case on eBay as it was sold as perfect? OK we believe the OP here, but if we get a thread tomorrow from someone who says they have bought a dress sold as used but in good condition but which turns up with marks or faults we would tell them hard luck as we only ever believe the sellers description?

Regardless of how good or bad eBay reps are, the moment we ask eBay to employ more to arbitrate on disputes our fees will go up to pay for them.

bris

Ebay are a market place, they bring buyers and sellers together for a fee. Whilst they have their own rules, those rules do not and can never over rule our own contract law. This is a civil matter between the 2 parties involved and until they sort it between them the OP owes nobody nothing. Ebay has their own rules so they pay the buyer, but that doesn't make the seller liable as they have not been proven to have breached the contract.


To understand why Ebay can't and will never try to recover a debt like this through the courts you need to read and understand the huge case Ebay v tiffany.


Ebay could indeed go to court for unpaid fees and win but that is a breach of contract between Ebay and the seller.