Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

System

I posted a link the other day re: a negative 300bn swing in FBI

Graham_Devon

Herzlos wrote: »

Do you really want to take the gamble that Brexit will send Airbus onto the mainland? Nissan? Toyota? BMW?

Honestly?

Yes.

Why? Because I'm sick and tired of multinational companies thinking they can make their own rules.

I'm also sick of the way the government allows lobbyists, but that's besides the point. the EU headquarters is obscene with lobbying though. They have whole apartments, hairdressers, services etc set up for lobbyists alone. They invite them in and pamper them while massive companies dictate the rules to them.

I don't want to lose the gamble, of course I don't. But I also don't want the UK to take the one last step and completely lose any backbone and let the nation be run by large companies, for large companies. . if we do, who will suffer. You. Me. Our children. You think the the Chief Exec is REALLY thinking of his employees here while he plays political chess with them?

We are a good nation to do business in. Airbus is clearly VERY happy to play with it's thousands of UK employees lives. Quite happy to let it's employees worry over their and their families futures while they play politics in the public arena.

I'm personally sick of it. I'm sick of Amazon treating staff with disdain, but sucking up to our leaders. I'm sick of companies like Airbus throwing empty threats around, leaving their employees wondering what on earth their future may be.

One day the threat might not be empty. However, I simply don't want the threat and having to sing the tune of the boy who cried wolf. If they don't want to be here, stop faffing around, stop telling everyone you don't want to be here, just go and let the rest of the UK make the best of what we have.

Herzlos

You do realize, though, that Brexit with the Tories at the helm will give businesses more power to abuse people, and without the EU championing all those pesky human and environmental rights, things will get worse?


You're willing to take the gamble, but don't want to lose, even though it's pretty clear that we'll lose some of them.


I don't like corporations having power over government like the US system, but I'm also aware that the EU is doing more to prevent that than we will, and that we need these big corporations to keep the lights on. I'm quite happy for them to exist and pay tax to fund our services. Assuming we can develop enough of a spine to get them to pay their fair share.


Airbus may be playing with it's staffs lives anyway - without access to the customs union their costs of doing business are predicted to go up by one billion pounds a year. Doing so either means putting their costs up and losing sales (and thus losing staff), or serious cost reductions (and thus losing staff). Pressuring the government to avoid the economic suicide is in the best interests of the staff - if the government does what's best for business, they'll be able to stay. If the goverment presses ahead with a hard brexit because of the "will of the people", jobs are going to be lost anyway, and the board of Airbus has a duty first and foremost to it's shareholders and keeping the business afloat. If that means ditching the UK site and building the wings in France, then I'm sure the French government will be happy to take that additional 10,000's of jobs and EUR2bn in tax. That'd suck for the UK employees and the treasury, but it's a problem 100% of Theresa May's making.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

Yet the populists seem to always implode within a short time of coming to any power once it becomes apparent they've no idea what they are doing.

Yes the consensus lame stream media all agreed Trump would immediately crash the economy and it wouldn't recover.

The modern wave of populist Govt's and coalitions are bringing back common sense and national interests. Germany is now more or less in the hands of populists, thank goodness.

Authoritarian centrists ignore the people as they consider themselves to be entitled to rule over the plebs. They cant bare being 2nd guessed by an ever wiser public that have woken up to the fact centrists are ruining & dumbing the west.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

You do realize, though, that Brexit with the Tories at the helm will give businesses more power to abuse people, and without the EU championing all those pesky human and environmental rights, things will get worse?

The same Tories you said would send EU citizens packing, yet yesterday gave them certainty, the same that oversaw equal marriage, the same championing animal rights (whilst EU allows hideous abuses & has far lower standards), the same that gold-plates EU workers rights making them the highest in Europe?

Have you been to France or Italy lately? The massed ranks of immigrants sleeping alongside roads, vast numbers sleeping rough in parks. The UK would never allow this scale of Human indignity despite us having our own rough sleeper issues.


Tories have been quietly increasing workers rights in the form of employee pension rights (set to mean 5% contributions this yr or next), paternity leave and far more, indeed Debenhams cite these rights as part of reason they could no longer compete.


Do you actually have any facts, or is it all emotive nonsense & standard rhetoric?

Graham_Devon

Herzlos wrote: »

You do realize, though, that Brexit with the Tories at the helm will give businesses more power to abuse people, and without the EU championing all those pesky human and environmental rights, things will get worse?

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. It is just that though, an opinion, and I disagree with it.

You're willing to take the gamble, but don't want to lose, even though it's pretty clear that we'll lose some of them.

No one wants to lose a gamble. of course I would prefer it if Airbus stayed here, and it would be a shame if due to Brexit (alone), they decided to leave. A genuine loss. However, I believe it's a gamble worth taking, even if it simply gives a statement to all other companies in the future. There has to be a line somewhere. Lobbying in public, in my opinion, is playing with employee's lives. Especially when you have already lobbied, played with their lives, and not followed up on the threats after the vote.

I don't like corporations having power over government like the US system, but I'm also aware that the EU is doing more to prevent that than we will, and that we need these big corporations to keep the lights on. I'm quite happy for them to exist and pay tax to fund our services. Assuming we can develop enough of a spine to get them to pay their fair share.

Again, your opinion. Have you seen the apartments in the EU headquarters for the sole use of large companies for lobbying purposes? Panorama on the BBC covered it. Hardly put's across the idea that the EU are trying to stop all this stuff - especially as there is some quite solid evidence the EU themselves ar ebehind airbus doing this today.

Airbus may be playing with it's staffs lives anyway - without access to the customs union their costs of doing business are predicted to go up by one billion pounds a year.

Maybe so. Makes no sense of moving to North America or China then, does it.

Surely those using Airbus from the remain side must ask themselves why Airbus are making press releases about this and are happy to be interviewed by seemingly all angles of the media today? Airbus clearly want this in the media to further their lobbying of the government. And people are lapping it up like a kitten to a bowl of milk.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

Why not, we had a world leading aircraft manufacturing sector until Tony Benn killed it off in the 1970's. We have the worlds second largest aerospace industry, and to my surprise the worlds largest medical Cannabis production industry and lead the world in electric car technology.

Then internationalization happened and the cost of building aircraft went up. We could start our own industry, but would anyone buy British aircraft if they aren't competitive with Boeing or Airbus?

So much defeatism by Remainers. Their response to very challenge is capitulation and doom, it's so sad to see.

Realism != defeatism. It's going to take some serious effort to mitigate Brexit, and I'm just not seeing that. Could it be a success? Easily! Will it? No.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

The same Tories you said would send EU citizens packing, yet yesterday gave them certainty, the same that oversaw equal marriage, the same championing animal rights (whilst EU allows hideous abuses & has far lower standards), the same that gold-plates EU workers rights making them the highest in Europe?

The same ones that no longer regard animals as sentient? That are putting real effort into making the lives of the poorest worse? PIP, Universal credit, disability assessment, taking away disability cars, bedroom tax, rape clause?


The same one headed up by a Home Secretary that started a "hostile environment" for foreigners, including the "go home" vans, and the Windrush scandal? That's constantly falling over scandal after scandal about racism, islamophobia?



The same party containing Reese-Mogg who views Brexit as a great opportunity to make the UK more competitive by slashing "red tape" (workers rights)? That also is against gay rights, abortion (despite making money from it) and so on?


I'd love to see a citation about UK workers rights being the best in Europe. I've honestly never heard that before.

Ballard

Lornapink wrote: »

Why not, we had a world leading aircraft manufacturing sector until Tony Benn killed it off in the 1970's. We have the worlds second largest aerospace industry, and to my surprise the worlds largest medical Cannabis production industry and lead the world in electric car technology.


So much defeatism by Remainers. Their response to very challenge is capitulation and doom, it's so sad to see.

How many billions do you propose we pump into this project in the hope that we sell planes against the effective duopoly of Airbus & Boeing?

Herzlos

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Lobbying in public, in my opinion, is playing with employee's lives. Especially when you have already lobbied, played with their lives, and not followed up on the threats after the vote.

Would you rather Airbus stayed quiet, and then just announced the move out of the UK once the deal is concluded, along with all the job losses. Or would you rather they tried to get the issue resolved before it was too late and ideally keep all the jobs?