Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

gfplux

This is the pushback from the EU in response to the latest paper from the Home Office.
Lots and lots of red lines.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171108IPR87615/brexit-ep-outlines-its-red-lines-on-latest-uk-citizens-rights-proposals

1) must be an automatic process in the form of a simple declaration, not an application which introduces any kind of conditionality (for example a pro-active ‘criminality check’);

2) must enable families to make one joint declaration, not separate declarations for each individual family member;

3) must place the burden of proof on the UK authorities to challenge the declaration and this only on a case-by-case basis and in line with EU law;

4) must be cost-free;

5) is a system that can only enter into force after any transition period, if requested and agreed, has concluded. Before that, the freedom of movement applies.

6) On family reunification, Parliament will not accept any weakening of existing rights that EU citizens currently enjoy with respect to family reunification, including both direct descendants and relatives of direct dependence in ascending line.

7) On the export of benefits, we insist that this cannot be limited to pensions only, but should include all benefits defined in EU legislation.

8) We insist that UK citizens currently living in the European Union continue to benefit from the freedom of movement after Brexit.”

gfplux

I was at a public meeting in Luxembourg last night.
The title was
Brexit and Citizens Rights Conference.

The speakers were

Fiona Godfrey (BRILL)
Charles Goerens (MEP)
Yuriko Backes (European Commission Luxembourg)
Corinne Cahen (Luxembourg Minister for Family and Intergration)
John Marshall (British Ambassador to Luxembourg)

There are about 7000 Britains living in Luxembourg.

The format was each speaker gave opening remarks and then the discussion was opened to the floor.
The evening only dealt with Citizens rights

The major takeaway for me was that Citizens rights need to be nailed down before moving on to trade. The fear being that unless everything is agreed in detail after trade comes on to the agenda Citizens rights would not be revisited.

Charles Goerens a Luxembourg MEP went as far as saying that if the Parliament (of MEP's) were not satisfied Citizens rights had not been properly protected (he thought) the Parliament would vote any deal down. This was after reading out the "red lines" that I have quoted in post 999.

You all would have been proud of our Ambassador. He acquitted himself very well. He represented Her Majesty's Government keeping clearly to the British line. He was very well informed and had clearly been very briefed in detail on the progress of negotiations.

phillw

setmefree2 wrote: »

The amount of Remoaning going on in the press and on the news is beyond belief. I have to wade through so much whiny drivel before I encounter just a few facts.

The facts haven't changed since before the referendum, if you didn't believe them before the referendum I doubt you'll believe them now.

setmefree2 wrote: »

They are also clearly trying to bring down the government - and the reporting is almost hysterical. Imho they will fail - May, Davis and Fox are a lot tougher than they are given credit for....|.

Nuts.

What a waste of time and energy.

That is democracy for you. You don't just win and then exert your wrath over the losers for all of time, they get to do the same thing back. May, Davis & Fox aren't strong, they are just persistent. Like Boris Johnson who keeps lying when he gets caught out. I have voted conservative since the 80's but this lot deserves to have a no confidence vote.

setmefree2 wrote: »

Also if you listen to enough of the whiny drivel it would actually cost you money.

The classic, we know brexit will cost lots of money but lets blame it on the remoaners negativity. No matter how hard you try, starting a 1970's cargo cult (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult) is not going to work.

gfplux wrote: »

8) We insist that UK citizens currently living in the European Union continue to benefit from the freedom of movement after Brexit.”

It's a pity we can't just remove free movement from the people who voted to leave. I'd gladly continue making a miniscule contribution to the EU for that.

Filo25 wrote: »

There's no shortage of hysterical reporting on either side of this particular story, you just don't mind half of it because you happen to agree with it.

The remainer media is liberal compared to the leaver media. The sun and daily mail seem to think it's a re-run of world war 2 (and the daily mail is still on the side of the nazi's).

ukcarper

Arklight wrote: »

Your lazy prejudice regarding young people on degree programmes and your wrongheaded understanding that somehow you can pick a job as a hobby is ridiculous. At some point it will dawn on you lot that you need these people to pay your pensions.


Very few people who are stakeholders in the future of the UK want to leave Europe.

No I have seen to many young people waste thier time on pointless degrees and fail to get a job remotely connected to it and end up working in a job that doesn't need a degree.

30% of people under 24 voted leave and that number was 46% for 25 to 50 year olds. So hardly very few.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Trying to say the progress has nothing to do with the EU is ridiculous. We only have companies like Nissan building factories in the UK because of the EU, a lot of companies are still holding on in case brexit doesn't happen. t.

I never said being in EU had nothing to do with just that wasn't the main reason. UK inflation was 18% in 1980 and 7% in 1972.

What Arkwright seems to forget is the main reason we were considered the sick man of Europe is the damage the non stop strikes were causing.

phillw

ukcarper wrote: »

I never said being in EU had nothing to do with just that wasn't the main reason.

What Arkwright seems to forget is the main reason we were considered the sick man of Europe is the damage the non stop strikes were causing.

The non stop strikes were caused by high inflation, it was joining the EEC and then EU that gave us low inflation. There were some short term bribes paid to some people which had to be paid for, that money came from increased trade from the EEC/EU. etc etc

Whether you feel europe was the main reason says more about you than it does about europe. I think we'd be in a much worse position if we hadn't and I think we'll be in a much worse position now. We can't know that yet but all the evidence from people who don't repeatedly get caught lying, supports that.

I'd have more confidence in brexit if they'd jail Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, David Davis etc.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

The non stop strikes were caused by high inflation, it was joining the EEC and then EU that gave us low inflation. There were some short term bribes paid to some people which had to be paid for, that money came from increased trade from the EEC/EU. etc etc

Whether you feel europe was the main reason says more about you than it does about europe. I think we'd be in a much worse position if we hadn't and I think we'll be in a much worse position now. We can't know that yet but all the evidence from people who don't repeatedly get caught lying, supports that.

I'd have more confidence in brexit if they'd jail Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, David Davis etc.

The strikes were caused by more than inflation and inflation was endemic.

It says nothing about me but your reply says more about you, I am not a hardened brexiter but can see both sides, you are just as bad as some of the hard brexit supporters on here it's just that you can't see it.

tracey3596

phillw wrote: »

I'd have more confidence in brexit if they'd jail Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, David Davis etc.

:eek:
Would you like the high leather boots and brown shirts to go with that? And here we are thinking that the likes of Rajoy were in a minority amongst Europhiles.

ukcarper

tracey3596 wrote: »

:eek:
Would you like the high leather boots and brown shirts to go with that? And here we are thinking that the likes of Rajoy were in a minority amongst Europhiles.

I missed that bit jail anyone who doesn't agree with you wow.

fewgroats

phillw wrote: »

I'd have more confidence in brexit if they'd jail Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, David Davis etc.

Only for tax evasion, though.