Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Moby

What people voted for is not clear at all. That's the problem.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/27/eurotunnel-tory-brexit-customs-union

The warnings just keep on coming.


Fascinating poll on Peston !!!8211; shows that % of NI people preferring to say in the EU has increased massively from 56% to 69% and it's clear Scottish people are moving that way as well. The numbers of Scottish and NI people wanting to remain in the single market are even higher. Unionists had better heed these trends.

Rich2808

Moby wrote: »

What people voted for is not clear at all. That's the problem.

Isn't it? Leaving the EU, taking back control of our laws and borders, leaving the single market as Cameron et al made clear would be the result, stop paying into the EU, and developing our own independent trade policy outside the customs union which prevents us having our own trade deals.

Become a vassal state while keeping all those without any say - as now seems to be where May is heading - is not 'taking back control'

People decided there was more to life than money and economics and ignored the project fear advice of the TPTB, IMF, BoE, TUC, CBI, Ryanair Goldman etc and voted to leave anyway.

The line 'we didn't know what we were voting for' - backed by a link from where else the Guardian - is just so lame as an excuse to ignore the result because you don't like it.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

...
Fascinating poll on Peston !!!8211; shows that % of NI people preferring to say in the EU has increased massively from 56% to 69% and it's clear Scottish people are moving that way as well. The numbers of Scottish and NI people wanting to remain in the single market are even higher. Unionists had better heed these trends.

Frankly, I couldn't give a stuff about NI or Scotland.

Why should I? The referendum question was about the "UK" leaving the EU...not half n half, or 60-40 depending on mood.

If you didn't like the question, get it fixed BEFORE we all voted on it. It's not rocket science.

If NI or Scotland want to remove themselves from the UK, then of course they can campaign for that.

Rich2808

kabayiri wrote: »

Frankly, I couldn't give a stuff about NI or Scotland.

Why should I? The referendum question was about the "UK" leaving the EU...not half n half, or 60-40 depending on mood.

If you didn't like the question, get it fixed BEFORE we all voted on it. It's not rocket science.

If NI or Scotland want to remove themselves from the UK, then of course they can campaign for that.

Everyone pretty much in NI is entitled to Irish citizenship anyway so will keep their freedom of movement rights anyway.

Of course while a united Ireland sounds fine will the Irish republic be able to afford to maintain the £9bn a year subsidy which the UK provides to the six counties.

And then there is losing the UK NHS which is free at the point of use. In Ireland any family household (not person) earning above 15000 euro (so doesn't get a medical card) - even kids older than 8 - have to pay 50 euro to see a GP, 100 euro to go to A&E and 70 euro a night for a hospital stay. And the actual service via the HSE makes the NHS seem like 5 star luxury.

The idea sounds nice - as we saw with Scotland - the practicalities are more complex. Perhaps not so attractive after all - when you keep your rights to live across the EU anyway.

kabayiri

Rich2808 wrote: »

...
The idea sounds nice - as we saw with Scotland - the practicalities are more complex. Perhaps not so attractive after all - when you keep your rights to live across the EU anyway.

I do think the referendum question should have been framed differently for both NI and Scotland and Wales. (or maybe a couple of questions).

They have their own political assemblies, unlike England which does not.

Tromking

Any future threat to the Union will only come if the English ever get to vote on the matter. The last opinion poll I saw on a United Ireland had only 21% of NI citizens in favour.
Like a previous poster suggested those NI citizens with a antipathetic view of Britain have some stark choices to make in the event of vote on separation. One of the joys of Brexit is that the cosy world for a Irish republican in Ulster of holding an Irish passport, an open border yet still having access to British free stuff is in doubt somewhat.

gfplux

Rich2808 wrote: »

Everyone pretty much in NI is entitled to Irish citizenship anyway so will keep their freedom of movement rights anyway.

Of course while a united Ireland sounds fine will the Irish republic be able to afford to maintain the £9bn a year subsidy which the UK provides to the six counties.

And then there is losing the UK NHS which is free at the point of use. In Ireland any family household (not person) earning above 15000 euro (so doesn't get a medical card) - even kids older than 8 - have to pay 50 euro to see a GP, 100 euro to go to A&E and 70 euro a night for a hospital stay. And the actual service via the HSE makes the NHS seem like 5 star luxury.

The idea sounds nice - as we saw with Scotland - the practicalities are more complex. Perhaps not so attractive after all - when you keep your rights to live across the EU anyway.

How would social security payments on wages be effected. I assume in the ROI they pay less as they have to pay at point of delivery.
In the example of fees you use are there exemptions for example pensioners or pregnant ladies.
If you live in the north do you have personal knowledge of the dreadful HSE service.
The £9 billion subsidy a year is not so far away from the the total the U.K. has been paying per year to the EU. Wow.
Thanks

Herzlos

Independent seem to think a 2nd referendum would be a remain:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-second-referendum-vote-leave-remain-swing-poll-a8371451.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1527427682

So is democracy holding to a date from 2 years ago, or reassessing it when the will of the people appears to have changed?

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

Independent seem to think a 2nd referendum would be a remain:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-second-referendum-vote-leave-remain-swing-poll-a8371451.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1527427682

So is democracy holding to a date from 2 years ago, or reassessing it when the will of the people appears to have changed?

Didn't they say remain would win before referendum.

Graham_Devon

Herzlos wrote: »

Independent seem to think a 2nd referendum would be a remain:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-second-referendum-vote-leave-remain-swing-poll-a8371451.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1527427682

So is democracy holding to a date from 2 years ago, or reassessing it when the will of the people appears to have changed?

I dunno.... but if a second referendum was held and remain won, how would the remain voters feel if we then left the EU?

I think for all our sanity and future prospects, we have to avoid the well trodden path of referendums until the right answer is given. It just breeds extremism.

Remember, if we hold another referendum and remain win it by a small majority, we'll just be back to where we were 4 years ago. UKIP (or worse) taking centre stage etc etc etc. But this time, the UKIP type party will be stronger, with factual statements on "don't vote for them, they won't do as they say they will".