Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

vivatifosi

A map designer has put together schematics showing the key aspects of Brexit in the style of a London tube map. Very clever and easy to pick out the key themes for each:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-essex-44257445

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

Even most of those pushing through Brexit i.e. May, Hammond etc don't believe in what they are doing. All that is happening now is that our Govmt are trying to get the best deal they can to minimise the damage caused by the vote while papering over the cracks in the tory party.....it's hardly the bright new future we were promised is it!

What is needed is that both sides need to stop pushing their own agendas and get together it's not just the Tory party that is divided. Our best chance to get a decent result is to present a united front. As for the Labour part thier policy is just a fudge designed not to reveal the splits in thier party and supporters.

kabayiri

ukcarper wrote: »

What is needed is that both sides need to stop pushing their own agendas and get together it's not just the Tory party that is divided. Our best chance to get a decent result is to present a united front. As for the Labour part thier policy is just a fudge designed not to reveal the splits in thier party and supporters.

Too many politicians have put their own interests over those of the voters.

They manage to look both impotent and incompetent. A tricky feat.

If the Brexit deal is perceived as bad, there could be a good chance of some political realignment. May is on borrowed time as it is.

Enterprise_1701C

ukcarper wrote: »

What is needed is that both sides need to stop pushing their own agendas and get together it's not just the Tory party that is divided. Our best chance to get a decent result is to present a united front. As for the Labour part thier policy is just a fudge designed not to reveal the splits in thier party and supporters.

Couldn't agree more.

It should be an all party campaign to deliver that which was voted for.

Of course, with someone like Khorbyn in charge of the labour party there is no chance of that, they just want to cause as much trouble as they can, it is now utterly controlled by the unions.

My grandfather was at the top level of a union in his day, we are talking about about 60 years ago. At that time the unions cared about their members and looked after them, but there is no way they would have gone on strike when a worker sacked for a genuine reason, such as the tube worker sacked for failing two random alcohol breath tests, or the tube driver that was re-assigned after jumping THREE red lights.

These days the unions are a political cosh, the big ones especially seem to care little for the common people, they care more about attempting to bring down the government. With this situation there is little chance of the main parties working together to deliver what the people voted for.

buglawton

vivatifosi wrote: »

Reading Barnier's comments over the weekend, I'm really not clear whether we are going to:

a) Compromise on an EFTA/EEA type deal, or
b) Crash out with a no deal, or
c) Extend the negotiation period.

What I can't see happening without a massive change in position on both sides is

d) Exiting the EU and CU to the original timetable.

What does everyone else think?

I think that the Brexit vote has forced a confrontation that was long coming. It’s in the small EU countries interests to acquiesce to any kind of EU nonsense in order to get the good side of it too. Gain for them > loss.

But a big player, the UK making a break for it has immediately prompted the EU leadership to place a false dilemma on the UK. May & co are taking the dilemma at face value, hence all the hesitation and hand wringing.

I say call the bluff, call it out loud and do it soon.

Analogy: If your family has decided to buy a used car with many attractive features but the price is suspiciously high (maybe it’s for the dealers benefit more than yours), be very clear you are prepared to WALK if the deal is not right.

Graham_Devon

Arklight wrote: »

You complain about the EU because of terrorism, two things that have nothing to do with one another, then jump onto some unexplained anecdote about Calais.

What do you mean?

No, I stated I had a problem with Germany's policy of letting almost anyone in under the banner of "refugee", which, in turn, let to known terrorists entering the EU area.

These known terrorists than went on to carry out the Bataclan and Berlin terrorist acts, killings tens of people (Plus all the sexual attacks). Not everyone who carried out a terrorist act came in via this route, but it's fact that these people did.

These terrorists also went back and forth to Syria etc as they pleased, acting as a refugee each time they made the crossing.

Why should I be happy about this? Why should I want to remain part of this? Why should I ignore this in the name of "diversity"?

That was my problem. No doubt you will now change my written word into your own version of events yet again.

Graham_Devon

vivatifosi wrote: »

Reading Barnier's comments over the weekend, I'm really not clear whether we are going to:

a) Compromise on an EFTA/EEA type deal, or
b) Crash out with a no deal, or
c) Extend the negotiation period.

What I can't see happening without a massive change in position on both sides is

d) Exiting the EU and CU to the original timetable.

What does everyone else think?

I don't think we will ever exit personally.

We may get another two year transistion period as it's likely in the best interests of both the EU member countries politically and the UK politically. The tory party will push for this as it's in their own interests for the party itself.

My own personal feeling is that we will then get another referendum or election (with promises for a referdum) further down the line. UKIP will rise again and nothing much will have changed.

The timing of the refendum / election will have a lot of resource poured into it though - and I wouldn't be surprised if the countries economy was "made poorer" to prove that we are better off in the EU. They didn't have to do that last time, but the BOE is now a political tool in my view, and Carney has said many times he's willing to do whatever it takes when it comes to brexit.

Last time it was all fear tactics. This time, I believe, the fear will be "proven" as best they can before careful placement of a vote. Won't exactly be hard for the establishment to work with the EU on this one.

If for example house prices did fall 10-15% naturally, it would be a great time to blame brexit and get people to vote again....that sort of thing.

Moby

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

It should be an all party campaign to deliver that which was voted for.

Of course, with someone like Khorbyn in charge of the labour party there is no chance of that, they just want to cause as much trouble as they can, it is now utterly controlled by the unions.

My grandfather was at the top level of a union in his day, we are talking about about 60 years ago. At that time the unions cared about their members and looked after them, but there is no way they would have gone on strike when a worker sacked for a genuine reason, such as the tube worker sacked for failing two random alcohol breath tests, or the tube driver that was re-assigned after jumping THREE red lights.

These days the unions are a political cosh, the big ones especially seem to care little for the common people, they care more about attempting to bring down the government. With this situation there is little chance of the main parties working together to deliver what the people voted for.

Can't you see what's wrong with your post. You agree with UK Carpet about the need for all politicians to compromise and than you come out with the old right wing clich!s about Corbyn. I think we’re beginning to really see May’s ambitions now, which is for as limited a withdrawal as she could manage that would satisfy enough leave voters to be viewed as successfully delivering the referendum result. I think if there was any way she could just drop Brexit she would, but she’s stuck with it.

buglawton

Graham_Devon wrote: »

....This time, I believe, the fear will be "proven" as best they can before careful placement of a vote. Won't exactly be hard for the establishment to work with the EU on this one....

If only our political establishment were that competent in Machiavellian tactics. See what happened with the last 'cunningly timed' election?

And don't forget the weapon of last resort used by all wealth creators (a large tier of the middle class) when they tire of incompetent leadership that never goes away: Take their skills and tax paying ability elsewhere. It certainly isn't the weather that's keeping me in the UK.

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

Can't you see what's wrong with your post. You agree with UK Carpet about the need for all politicians to compromise and than you come out with the old right wing clich!s about Corbyn. I think we’re beginning to really see May’s ambitions now, which is for as limited a withdrawal as she could manage that would satisfy enough leave voters to be viewed as successfully delivering the referendum result. I think if there was any way she could just drop Brexit she would, but she’s stuck with it.

Just to say I feel the compromise is not to stay in customs union and single market as that clearly does not represent what people voted for. If everybody accepted that and pushed for best deal achievable outside that instead of pushing to leave in name only or for a hard brexit.