Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

iro

Herzlos wrote: »

We haven't had any debate over our future beyond trying to figure out how to get away with Brexit. There's been a bit of talk of trade but it's mostly been us trying to get other countries to pretend we're in the EU.

There's been a bit of investment in science/technology, but nothing major, and no real discussion of the future or any big picture thinking. In short, I don't think we've had any discussion about the future we wouldn't had anyway. Probably less, since we've had to spend so much time talking about Brexit. Just think what Parliament could have done with those thousands of hours that would have benefited us.



What messages? That no-one knows what they want, and we've got deep problems that aren't being addressed?



I don't see how you can say that with a straight face after the scandals of the last week - Windrush, Indian Doctors, low hanging fruit immigration quotas, those "go home" vans. Are those British values?


We do. Potentially, depending on our Brexit deal, if we want to keep seamless trade.



What fiscal balance? We've sold off the silver and still running a huge deficit, we're broke and getting worse.



We can put them first by staying in the EU, and reaping the benefits of such.



We'll see if they actually rise, or if we'll just have less wages and more zero hour stuff as the economy shrinks.



That's going to fit well with the "Earn, learn, return" stuff, and is nothing we couldn't have done anyway. We've got a serious problem with short-termish, and Brexit isn't going to change that.


We could do that anyway. Why home ownership rather than social rents?



Do illegal migrants have any significant impact on the NHS? I know the legal ones are more likely to work there than drain it's resources, whilst still paying taxes.


Far from it, they are in the process of discussing another referendum without Westminsters backing, since they are getting so screwed over by Brexit.



The UK will emerge poorer, with less world presence, more internal division and resentment and with less equality if the Tories get their way in reducing "red tape".



We do have a different system, sure, but it's not entirely incompatible.


If you say so. Given that there's no consensus or idea of what they want, it's hard to say. There's lots of "big picture" ideas with no concern for the little details.


Or the pragmatists, asking such devious questions as "why do you want to do that?" and "how will that work, then?"


If he wants democracy back, then he should be happy that "Remainers" are fighting for democracy, no?
It's also interesting that he doesn't know any Remainers (despite the statistics showing that more under 25's voted in than out), and doesn't want a "jobs first Brexit".

But it does highlight this problem that Leavers and Remainers are completely unable to understand each other. I'm trying but failing miserably.

StillRemainers look back in anger at the referendum

Leavers look forward to Brexit

https://howmanydaystill.com/its/brexit-6

iro

Sky saying Sajid

Brilliant Brilliant news (and not just because he looks like a younger version of me:))

Arklight

That sound of scrabbling is the Tories desperately trying to find a token minority candidate for the front bench.

kabayiri

ilovehouses wrote: »

Thrug's spent years telling us the UK is living on borrowed time, the party's ending and many other metaphors to indicate bad things will happen at an (unspecified) time in the future.
..

Pretending that you can just carry on doing what you have always been doing was a central tenet of the Remain argument.

It misses a few key points by a country mile :

a) the EU has changed massively in the last quarter of a century, and will continue to change (with or without us)

b) not everyone sees the outlook the same way. It's taken many years for the divides in the country to become a chasm, but the direction has been clear for a long time

c) the rest of the world will continue to develop. Ultimately, countries like China aim to generate a big enough internal market. to wean themselves off selling cheap goods to the West. If they change, we also have to change. We can't isolate ourselves.

Arklight

ilovehouses wrote: »

Basically if you voted remain in the referendum and come from a minority the job's yours.

But do they have a second candidate other than Sajid? Anyone, anyone at all?

No.

Enterprise_1701C

ilovehouses wrote: »

It was a central tenet of the leave argument actually. Weren't remainers meant to be scared of change thus voting for the 'status quo' of staying in the EU? I think, in reality, most people are grown up enough to realise that there's no such thing as the status quo.

Our disagreement is about whether we're better able to adapt to a changing world inside or outside the EU rather than you mistakenly thinking only leavers have spotted that change is guaranteed whatever route we take.

How can we possibly adapt if we are tied hand foot to a protectionist superstate that does not have our best interests at heart. This is demonstrated by the fact that most eu trade deals do not include services.

Lornapink

If a further referendum occurs, the SNP will argue it too is thus entitled to a further one. If the EU referendum is won by Remain you would see the collapse of the wet Tory party to be replaced by something far more pure and certain of itself, or UKIP re-emerging and winning far more than the 4 m it won in 2015, and from all this a referendum on England (possibly with Wales) leaving the UK and form there the EU.


Remainers would rue the day they bought down Brexit.

iro

iro wrote: »

Part of me wants the remoaniacs to succeed in overturning the democratic will of 17.4 million, just to see what happens next..............

Be very careful what you wish for would be my view.

Agreed Lorna the point I also made

Pauciloquent_1_2

Hey_Jude_1967 wrote: »

What part of my post was Ironic?............. Think you need check the definition of the word "Irony"...:rotfl:

It's just more desperate baying of remainers convinced that somehow Brexit will not happen, the poor deluded bunch.
Meanwhile Barnier issues another ultimatum, saying that talks are at risk of collapse.
Call their bluff say I.

iro

Sajid wants out CU.

Good news, glad Rudd went, hopefully Hastings will get rid of her too, a remainer in a solid Bexit seat not likely to survive (please note Soubry).

https://election.news.sky.com/referendum/hastings-2850

Nice to see Arlene getting her teeth into Barnier, think she will be going 'a la carte' and finishing off Juncker, Verhofstadt etc. (note to the mods I do not actually mean 'getting her teeth into Barnier' rather I am using it as a figurative image in much the same way as a cartoonist might draw it. I am, if you allow, painting a picture in words in much the same way as JRM placing the toes of remainers close to the fire did not mean JRM actually placing their toes close to the fire rather I am using it as a figurative........)

The best element of the election was the increased importance of the DUP for Liberal Unionist Tories like me.