Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

One can guess where the media storm is being driven from. Given that Labour seen deeply divided on another issue..... With a certain JC tainted yet again.

She appears to have misled parliament so can't really have many complaints.

Moby

Filo25 wrote: »

So who is going to get the Home Secretary's job, sadly that is actually a Brexit issue these days, it has to go to a Remainer or the "truce" within the party ends (well unless one of the big name Brexiters gets the boot as well)

James Brokenshire may come back to Govmt after his op. Now Rudd joins Soubry on the backbenches to cause mayhem and force this Govmt towards a customs partnership to keep us as close to the eu as possible;)

Filo25

Moby wrote: »

James Brokenshire may come back to Govmt after his op. Now Rudd joins Soubry on the backbenches to cause mayhem and force this Govmt towards a customs partnership to keep us as close to the eu as possible;)

I think Brokenshire had responsibility for immigration during his time at the Home Office, which could be a problem given Rudd's reasons for leaving.

melanzana

Will be a BINO yet..

But everyone will be happy because there will be a Brexit.. In Name Only though.

Arklight

Pauciloquent_1 wrote: »

Except for the devout remainers here by the looks of it that would rather stay in the past, clinging on to the shirt-tails of the EU and fearful of what lies ahead all the time ignoring the increasing slew of negativity towards the EU from within.

I posed remainers a question yesterday.
Since then there have been a number of posts from remainers not one of which has even acknowledged the question, much less answered it. (They're more interested in the likes of derogatory "tin foil hats"-type comments, sadly.)
Because they can't.
They know it is fact but they would rather deny it, from the looks of it.

So again:
"Maybe you should acknowledge that despite Brexit, the UK is in fact more centrist than much of the EU since here we have no populist or extremist parties in our House of Commons, and whatever UKIP MEP's there are (19) will not exist in a year's time.
How much of the EU could you say that for?"

Until some remainers accept this fact they will presumably never acknowledge that in so many ways the UK is better off out of the EU.

This has already been asked and answered a number of times. The UK has a FPTP electoral system whereas most of the EU has PR. The “extremist parties” you are so excited about in Europe are called Tory MPs here.

Amber Rudd has just resigned for enacting a strategy of systemic racism against commonwealth British citizens. Which is a complete joke because Theresa May, the Prime Minister, was actually in charge of this. Rudd was just a careerist with no principles of her own who did what she thought would be to her personal advantage. Like the rest of the Tory cabinet then.

Then we have a Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs who refers to black people as “picaninnies”, and recites insulting imperial era poetry about Myanmar on state visits to Myanmar. Among many other things.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36793900/boris-johnsons-most-controversial-foreign-insults

Of course when the government isn’t being kept busy with this they're driving vans around the East End telling brown people to go home.

At least the Tories have moved on from admonishing people that, “If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour.”

Just not very far.

Moby

This resignation is the civil service demonstrating to ministers how to behave. The series of leaks were designed to undercut Rudd, and everytime she said something untrue, within a few hours another leak appeared to directly contradict her. I've heard information was being fed to Yvette Cooper, Chair of the Home Affairs select committee by the Civil Service union.The series of lies is why she had to go, but it has been the leaking from her own staff that have brought these to everyone's attention.

Clearly Rudd lost he confidence of her officers, and this is an issue for government as a whole. I can see overlaps into the world of Brexit, where hard core leavers have been openly critical of civil servants. The delivery of Rudd's scalp is a lesson to them, if ever one was needed.

Indeed, the proxy war between hard Brexiters and May took another twist last night when Davis, under concerted criticism for his failure to deny reports that he was threatening to resign unless May's senior Brexit civil servant Ollie Robbins was sidelined. Davis has been slapped down, and this is important as Robbins is behind the idea of a form of customs partnership, which Brexiters think is the thin end of a customs union wedge.

It looks to me like the character of the modern Conservative Party has strained relations between the government and their civil service. The culture of blaming someone else is a speciality of May's anyway, but Gove's 'who needs experts' fits the pattern also. If you continually look to blame the people working for you when things go wrong, then you can expect a comuppance at some stage.

Rudd has resigned for deying there were targets for deporting immigrants. Who is going to carry the can for the way the Windrush generation have been treated though? That's got to be May herself if there is any justice!

iro

Promote Sajid, he maybe a remainer but he embodies Great British values having come from a modest background and he is the son of an immigrant from the Commonwealth.

Also bring back Pritti to a role in the Home Office.

gfplux

Both sides of the Brexit argument will not or can not see the other side of the argument.
However surely we all agree that few people anticipated that a vote for Brexit would occupy so much of Government and opposition intellectual capacity that the correct governing of the UK would become a sideline.

While Brexiters and remainers wait the one or two generations to fulfill their dreams or disasters how long will it take Britain to recover from the damage done by the Brexit focus that is already two years long?

iro

gfplux wrote: »

Both sides of the Brexit argument will not or can not see the other side of the argument.
However surely we all agree that few people anticipated that a vote for Brexit would occupy so much of Government and opposition intellectual capacity that the correct governing of the UK would become a sideline.

While Brexiters and remainers wait the one or two generations to fulfill their dreams or disasters how long will it take Britain to recover from the damage done by the Brexit focus that is already two years long?

Disagree, Brexit has allowed an honest debate about our country and its future.

This would not have happened if we had voted remain, then we would have been arguing about the future direction of the EU now we can ignore that and let them get on with it.

Just because Brexit looks messy does not mean that there are real messages within it.

EUcentric (and Euethnic) values that discriminate in favour of inwards migration from the EU and against inwards migration from the Commonwealth are not British values.

We have to have the abilty to make trade arrangements with the world.

That after the hard won fiscal balance that has been achieved through austerity measures we need to look put the interests of British citizens first:

Through allowing real wage rates to rise.
Through obliging firms to invest in capital not rely on an unending supply of cheap labour from the continent.
Through house building and encouraging home ownership.
Through efficient measures to control and stamp out illegal migration that bleeds resources from our NHS and other public services.

That the issue of Scotland's independence is now dead.

Yes Brexit is taking a while but the UK will emerge a refreshed and different country, fairer and more at ease with itself. The values within the EU, based on Roman Law and the Napoleonic civil code where 'permission has to be sought before' are profoundly at odds with the British attitude of permissiveness.

Today the Leavers are the real radicals of the age, the StillRemainers are the dullards.

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/976960205761101825?lang=en

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Herzlos

iro wrote: »

Disagree, Brexit has allowed an honest debate about our country and its future.

We haven't had any debate over our future beyond trying to figure out how to get away with Brexit. There's been a bit of talk of trade but it's mostly been us trying to get other countries to pretend we're in the EU.

There's been a bit of investment in science/technology, but nothing major, and no real discussion of the future or any big picture thinking. In short, I don't think we've had any discussion about the future we wouldn't had anyway. Probably less, since we've had to spend so much time talking about Brexit. Just think what Parliament could have done with those thousands of hours that would have benefited us.

Just because Brexit looks messy does not mean that there are real messages within it.

What messages? That no-one knows what they want, and we've got deep problems that aren't being addressed?

EUcentric (and Euethnic) values that discriminate in favour of inwards migration from the EU and against inwards migration from the Commonwealth are not British values.

I don't see how you can say that with a straight face after the scandals of the last week - Windrush, Indian Doctors, low hanging fruit immigration quotas, those "go home" vans. Are those British values?

We have to have the abilty to make trade arrangements with the world.

We do. Potentially, depending on our Brexit deal, if we want to keep seamless trade.

That after the hard won fiscal balance that has been achieved through austerity measures

What fiscal balance? We've sold off the silver and still running a huge deficit, we're broke and getting worse.

we need to look put the interests of British citizens first

We can put them first by staying in the EU, and reaping the benefits of such.

Through allowing real wage rates to rise.

We'll see if they actually rise, or if we'll just have less wages and more zero hour stuff as the economy shrinks.

Through obliging firms to invest in capital not rely on an unending supply of cheap labour from the continent.

That's going to fit well with the "Earn, learn, return" stuff, and is nothing we couldn't have done anyway. We've got a serious problem with short-termish, and Brexit isn't going to change that.

Through house building and encouraging home ownership.

We could do that anyway. Why home ownership rather than social rents?

Through efficient measures to control and stamp out illegal migration that bleeds resources from our NHS and other public services.

Do illegal migrants have any significant impact on the NHS? I know the legal ones are more likely to work there than drain it's resources, whilst still paying taxes.

That the issue of Scotland's independence is now dead.

Far from it, they are in the process of discussing another referendum without Westminsters backing, since they are getting so screwed over by Brexit.

Yes Brexit is taking a while but the UK will emerge a refreshed and different country, fairer and more at ease with itself.

The UK will emerge poorer, with less world presence, more internal division and resentment and with less equality if the Tories get their way in reducing "red tape".

The values within the EU, based on Roman Law and the Napoleonic civil code where 'permission has to be sought before' are profoundly at odds with the British attitude of permissiveness.

We do have a different system, sure, but it's not entirely incompatible.

Today the Leavers are the real radicals of the age

If you say so. Given that there's no consensus or idea of what they want, it's hard to say. There's lots of "big picture" ideas with no concern for the little details.

the StillRemainers are the dullards.

Or the pragmatists, asking such devious questions as "why do you want to do that?" and "how will that work, then?"

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/976960205761101825?lang=en

If he wants democracy back, then he should be happy that "Remainers" are fighting for democracy, no?
It's also interesting that he doesn't know any Remainers (despite the statistics showing that more under 25's voted in than out), and doesn't want a "jobs first Brexit".

But it does highlight this problem that Leavers and Remainers are completely unable to understand each other. I'm trying but failing miserably.