Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

mayonnaise

cogito wrote: »

It's not a non-issue at all. The V4!!!8217;s issue is that the EU are insisting that they take an allocation of [STRIKE]young male sub-Saharan and Middle Eastern economic migrants[/STRIKE] refugees even though they don't want to live there. The V4 say that they alone and not Mrs Merkel or Brussels have the right to determine who lives in their countries. The Hungarian people have given Orban a majority which will enable him to amend the constitution to do exactly that.

The EU have already invoked Article 7 against Poland which required a 100% majority vote by all other members which Hungary and perhaps other V4 members would vote down. If they try to do the same against Hungary, Poland would vote it down.

But wait a minute. The EU are using the self amending provisions of the Lisbon Treaty to change the vote from 100% majority to a 4/5 majority.

Still think it's a non-issue?

Yep, non issue.
There has been a long history of non-compliance of various EU regulations and directives by various EU member states.
From countries like Italy flouting EU working time regulations, France and others utterly ignoring EU fiscal rules, most of EU members not adhering to EU air quality standards, so many examples to choose from.
At some point a compromise will be found. Or not. Or it will be kicked in the long grass, and soon forgotten about.
But if it keeps Europhobes excited for a moment, it's all good.

Thrugelmir

mayonnaise wrote: »

At some point a compromise will be found. Or not. Or it will be kicked in the long grass, and soon forgotten about.

Like immigration to the UK you mean. Issues don't fade away. They fester. Then they reemerge as headaches. As simply reinforce nationalistic views.

cogito

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yep, non issue.
There has been a long history of non-compliance of various EU regulations and directives by various EU member states.
From countries like Italy flouting EU working time regulations, France and others utterly ignoring EU fiscal rules, most of EU members not adhering to EU air quality standards, so many examples to choose from.
At some point a compromise will be found. Or not. Or it will be kicked in the long grass, and soon forgotten about.
But if it keeps Europhobes excited for a moment, it's all good.

You seem to be quite accepting of the fact that EU member countries breach their rules with impunity. The big one that you didn't mention was the German trade surplus which has breached EU rules for a decade or more enabled by the currency which is blighting the economies of the smaller countries of the eurozone. But Germany is too big to kick around so lets have a go at Poland instead.

How anyone can support this utterly disfunctional and unreformable club is beyond me.

Backbiter

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/fraud-unravels-everything-brexit/

. Vote Leave spent at least £625,000 over its £7 million limit (8.9%). It does not matter if it was separate legal entities that may have done the spending because, with collusion, !!!8216;fraud unravels everything!!!8217;.

Did spending fraud sway the result? Just 634,751 out of 33.5 million voters (1.8%) needed to switch to leave over remain. The overspent cash went into online advertising, targeted at people based on individual psychological profiles. According to evidence heard by a House of Commons Committee in March 2018, those profiles were built through Facebook and other data, without consent or knowledge of UK voters. They were taken through a Facebook application made by a Cambridge psychologist called Aleksandr Kogan and sold to a New York corporation called Cambridge Analytica LLC, owned by American billionaire Robert Mercer and Strategic Communications Group Ltd. The data was then sold to a Canadian corporation, Aggregate IQ Ltd, hired by Vote Leave to target UK voters. They used the most psychologically manipulative technology known, exceeding spending limits in the process.

Not even the most passionate Brexiters can be happy with such a questionable outcome. They do swear by the sanctity of UK sovereignty, so any illegitimate outside influences needs to be fully investigated before the validity of the 2016 referendum change ascertained. Surely a second referendum is preferable to the shenanigans that went on last time.

wunferall

Backbiter wrote: »

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/fraud-unravels-everything-brexit/

Not even the most passionate Brexiters can be happy with such a questionable outcome. They do swear by the sanctity of UK sovereignty, so any illegitimate outside influences needs to be fully investigated before the validity of the 2016 referendum change ascertained. Surely a second referendum is preferable to the shenanigans that went on last time.

Oh goody, a post from a blog. Let's ignore the remain lies, Soros's funding, Britain Stronger in Europe lies, government "stay" leafletting and the rolling-out of Presidents etc. in favour of what a blogger says.

Can you really not accept yet that Brexit is going to happen?

kabayiri

Backbiter wrote: »

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/fraud-unravels-everything-brexit/

Not even the most passionate Brexiters can be happy with such a questionable outcome. They do swear by the sanctity of UK sovereignty, so any illegitimate outside influences needs to be fully investigated before the validity of the 2016 referendum change ascertained. Surely a second referendum is preferable to the shenanigans that went on last time.

So what's your 2nd referendum question?

If we remain, on what terms?

We have no real clout within the EU now. That's obvious from the way the other leaders marginalised PM May during the meetings.

I just don't think it will happen. Too much political pride at stake.

wunferall

It's remainer desperation and squealing, nothing more than that.

Like the headlines of "Britons apply in record numbers to become EU citizens". How many in a year, then? Just over 6,500 How many EU nationals applied for UK citizenship in a year? Almost 30,000. Well over four times as many.

Now, I wonder how many of those Brits applying for EU nationality were disgruntled remainers from these forums?

Herzlos

We've got no clout now that we're leaving; why bother spending time on someone who wants to be on the outside when there are others to talk to?

We'll regain most of it if we were to stay in but I don't think that the damage is entirely irrepairable.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

It's remainer desperation and squealing, nothing more than that.

Like the headlines of "Britons apply in record numbers to become EU citizens". How many in a year, then? Just over 6,500 How many EU nationals applied for UK citizenship in a year? Almost 30,000. Well over four times as many.

Now, I wonder how many of those Brits applying for EU nationality were disgruntled remainers from these forums?

How many Brits *need* to become EU citizens to live in the EU?
Sure, in absolute numbers it's small, but if it's a marked increase.

As for me I'm waiting to see what happens before I try to get German citizenship. We might not screw ourselves badly enough that I need it :T

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

Oh goody, a post from a blog. Let's ignore the remain lies, Soros's funding, Britain Stronger in Europe lies, government "stay" leafletting and the rolling-out of Presidents etc. in favour of what a blogger says.

Can you really not accept yet that Brexit is going to happen?

Is there anything in the blog you think is incorrect or don't agree with? Or are you trying to shoot down the credibility because it's showing the legal position regarding unrolling Brexit?

Did Vote Leave break the rules by spending more money than allowed via a 3rd party? Did that spend impact the vote? Enough to invalidate the result?

Did Remain break any rules, or just do stuff you didn't like?