Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

Yes, the sun rose on the 24th June 2016 just like you said it would - you won that argument alright. You're fighting yesterday's imaginary battles.

Still, the happy by-product of your victory is to remind us just how well the UK has and is doing as a member of the EU.



Yes, as I said, someone always shouts 'what about Greece'. They keep voting for clown to govern them and, contrary to popular brexiteer belief, sovereign governments are more than capable of messing things up despite being part of the EU.

IMO we were doing just fine in the EU - I don't really care that much if Greece hasn't managed to obtain the same membership dividend that the UK has.

Your deflection isn't working, you ignored Italy and Spain. So AGAIN if UK economy is because of the EU as you so fallaciously suggest it naturally follows that Italy and Spain's poor economies are the fault of the EU.

Which leads us to perceive (using your own argument) that your desire for continued UK membership is also a desire for the UK to decline as they have done.

Well unsurprisingly over 17 million voted against your wishes.

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

Farcical.

I'm decrying our country because I've pointed out how far we've come in the last few decades whilst a member of the EU?

No, what's farcical is your denial that the loss of 250,000 BL jobs and 290,000 mining jobs were the fault of the EU which you then go on to say is responsible for our current economic state. You can't have it both ways.
:wall:

Arklight

wunferall wrote: »

And for the rest of the UK, as decided by 17,410,742 voters. Brexit here we come.

You've justified independence for Stoke, from the UK.

Herzlos

spikyone wrote: »

Improved standards? Little to do with the EU - in many cases (for example animal welfare) the UK has actually driven those standards, and we are not so stupid that we couldn't define whatever standards we consider suitable without the EU guiding us.

And then there's all the things the EU has "forced on us" that makes our lives better. Standardized phone chargers, no roaming charges within EU, Euro rated car emissions, numerous environmental regulations and so on. Do you think we'd have all of that without the EU?

Shared resources and research? Cross-border research is not going to stop when we leave

Some of it already has - UK labs and universities are being shut out of contracts because they can't be relied on to have ongoing access.

and frankly the notion of "shared resources" whilst we're paying into the economies of net beneficiary nations whilst jobs are moved to those same nations to reduce costs (I've seen first hand a former employer move jobs from Spain to Romania in the name of cost saving) is a little ridiculous.

I meant things like Euratom, aviation, food standards agencies and so on, where we split the cost between members (and some used to generate a lot of money for the local London area). Sure some businesses will move locations East, either within the EU or outside the EU to save money, but that's not my point.
There are dozens of agencies we were sharing that we'll need to fund on our own (without the economies of scale) whilst still interacting with the EU equivalent (by traveling into the EU). That's always going to be more expensive than the shared ones.

Consistent regulations? Roughly half our trade is with non-EU nations who potentially have differing regulations anyway. It's a complete non-issue.

And thus roughly half is with the EU, where we can trade freely using EU approved stuff built in the same way for the whole market. We even get some special access to other markets via reciprocal regulatory agreements with the EU.

I voted leave, and I didn't do so because I wanted fewer foreigners in the UK. I did vote leave (in part) because it's preposterous that an unqualified European can move to the UK without a job and send benefits back to his family, whilst a qualified citizen from outside the EU that wishes to work in an industry where we have skills shortages has to jump through all manner of hoops.

You know that the UK government had the ability to prevent that and didn't, right? That you're wanting to leave the EU in order for the UK to be able to do something it already could?

(by this I mean we could remove EU migrants that didn't find a job within (IIRC) 5 years, and didn't need to provide them benefits within that time either. We couldn't treat them the same as the rest of the world).

I hope that post-Brexit, we'll be in a position to judge all potential migrants equally and use it to boost our economy rather than as a means to export money. It was only the Remain camp that portrayed the Leave campaign as being entirely about "keeping foreigners out". If Remainers had bothered listening to anyone else's point of view, their own campaign might have been more effective.

All of the research/polls/surveys show that the 2 most common words from Leavers were "immigration" and "sovereignty" by a huge margin.

It's nothing to do with not listening. Remain listened and pointed out that none of your problems will be solved by Leaving, that most problems will be made worse, but Leave was run on a campaign that was "sick of experts". It's hard to have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to listen to experts and have only irrational gut feelings as to why they want to do what they do.

I do think the government should have and be doing a lot more to address the actual needs of the voters rather than following down this "will of the people" garbage (since we already know they don't actually care about the people or their will).

mrginge

After 400 pages this thread has now moved on to the thorny issue of whether the UK should leave the EU or not.

I thought we had already voted on this matter but I guess not.
One hopes that in the real world people who are actively involved in brexit trade groups are being a bit more proactive than just sitting round blubbing about 1970s British bleedin Leyland

Thrugelmir

ilovehouses wrote: »

Worth remembering.



I don't see much danger from Brexit for those mainly foreign owned brands. They're brands that command an added value premium but they are niche.

That's where the value is to the economy though. Added value comes from things such as craftmanship. Skills earn people money. Not machine engineered components that simply require some manual assembly. Requiring little to no skill.

Thrugelmir

ilovehouses wrote: »

Worth remembering.

My late father worked for a UK owned rubber plantation company with operations in Malaysia. The Company was acquired by the Chinese in the 1960's. 50 years later the Chinese are still acquiring. Called long term thinking.........

gfplux

Being ON ignore is no different to BEING ignored.
Those who now find that they can not find any benefits for Britain in leaving the EU but dare not mention that the primary motivation for voting Brexit was immigration should also hit the ignore button.
When you find there are no benefits for Britain in leaving to post on this forum why not discuss Greece or Poland or Hungary.
When you are in a very dark deep hole just keep on digging and hit the ignore button.
Better still, stand up, put your hands over your ears and chant La, La, La La.

Enterprise_1701C

Many advantages to being outside of the eu have been posted on this thread gfplux.

It seems to me that you are the one choosing to ignore everyone that posts good reasons for leaving.

Just because you see things like actually being in control of our destiny and not being forced to join the euro, and many other things too, as bad things, it does not mean that they are not brilliant reasons for growing the flight feathers back in our heretofore clipped wings.

Herzlos

I'm surprised by how few eu countries are using the euro currently (and the inconvenience of it), so I genuinely can't see us being forced to use the euro if we'd stayed in.

Can you name any tangible benefit of being in control of our own destiny? Will you personally have more control than before? I won't.

I'm theory it's a great idea but it's totally let down by the details and the people you want to hand the control to.