Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

cepheus

cogito wrote: »

Last week the EU published a document which effectively annexed part of the UK. What words would you use to describe this if you think that the UK is behaving like a toddler?

Second thoughts. I don't even know why I'm asking this of an apologist for the EU. Nothing they do will ever be wrong in your eyes.

The Tory party is responsible for the referendum without any consideration for the consequences for Northern Ireland. De-facto annexation of NI is inevitable unless it's part of the Customs Union which they rejected. The same could happen with Scotland because I doubt if they will stand for a hard Brexit.

Thrugelmir

cepheus wrote: »

A proportion of ordinary people can easily be manipulated by the media and politicians in the second list, experts less easily so. That's why Michael Gove hates experts.

Ordinary people shouldn't be dismissed as not being capable of arriving at their own decisions. After all they are the ones that don't live inside gated compounds. Feeling the impact directly in their own daily lives. Or highly possible lack of impact I should say. As they are not seeing any benefit from EU membership.

Thrugelmir

cepheus wrote: »

The Tory party is responsible for the referendum without any consideration for the consequences for Northern Ireland. De-facto annexation of NI is inevitable unless it's part of the Customs Union which they rejected. The same could happen with Scotland because I doubt if they will stand for a hard Brexit.

There's only an issue because the Irish themselves are making it one. Politics above common sense.

Rinoa

ilovehouses wrote: »

Ask David Davis. It's what he agreed.

No. He specifically did not agree that.

Either way, the border is very difficult. It would be far easier to find a solution after we know the trade deal. So again, why can't we wait until the trade deal is agreed.

Tromking

cepheus wrote: »

The Tory party is responsible for the referendum without any consideration for the consequences for Northern Ireland. De-facto annexation of NI is inevitable unless it's part of the Customs Union which they rejected. The same could happen with Scotland because I doubt if they will stand for a hard Brexit.

Trying to imagine two of the constituent nations of the UK being in a EU customs union and the other two not......nope, dream on.
The Northern Ireland situation is being used to wreck Brexit, this will not go down to well with the British electorate, especially those in Ulster, those folks don’t scare easy. Sick and tired of foreign elements and quisling Brits trying to break up my country.

Rough_Justice

Moby wrote: »

I should imagine ordinary people were a significant proportion of the 48%. Would you class Farage, Johnson, Gove, Redwood, Duncan Smith, Bone etc as representative of ordinary people. I wouldn't. On another point I reckon we'd have appreciated the solidarity from our EU colleagues to support us in the coming war with Russia. Now because of brexit we're going to be pretty isolated!

:rotfl:
I have seen some examples of paranoia in this thread but this has to be hands-down not only the most amusing, but also the most ridiculously incorrect.
I will for the sake of simplicity ignore the first paragraph altogether.

Taking the highlighted, firstly were there to to be a UK/Russia war we are (in case you had forgotten) members of NATO.
Isolated?
Is that not enough support to be going on with?

Secondly I find the suggestion of relying upon EU help a more than a little puzzling given the state of the major player's military.
The French will be the EU's main military power post-Brexit.
They have less that half their aircraft and helicopters fit to fly at any given time and Macron made such cuts that the defence minister resigned last year.
On a positive, Macron has agreed to reach NATO's 2% of GDP on spending .................. by 2025!

The Germans?
They will have the 2nd largest military in the EU after France and yet their state of readiness is also dire, with under half of many of their major weapons systems being fit for active duty at any given time.
For example, out of 128 Typhoon fighter planes only 29 are fit for use, as are under half their Leopard 2 tanks.

So if we really were to rely upon such examples of "solidarity" as opposed to NATO or (heaven forbid) our own nuclear deterrent then what little help they could offer would not be much good,would it?

In honesty it is the EU that should be far more concerned should Trump decide that the EU members of NATO are not fulfilling their obligations, or making plans to do so quickly enough.
The EU would soon feel exposed if tens of thousands of US military personal withdrew from their mainland.
But no, go ahead thinking that the UK and Russia are the ones likely to go to war.
Just in case you're concerned about the recent attack on a former Russian agent, don't pin your hopes of war on this.
Espionage has led to deaths and recriminations for centuries without all-out war being the outcome.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/16/ground-force-half-frances-military-planes-unfit-fly/
http://www.warfare.today/2018/02/28/limited-number-of-weapons-in-german-military-ready-for-action-report/

cepheus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There's only an issue because the Irish themselves are making it one. Politics above common sense.

This is from an Express journalist, which I quote only due to their tendency to (usually) see Brexit in a highly positive light!

The issue of Northern Ireland was rarely raised by both the Leave and Remain campaign during the run-up to the referendum and many citizens living in the country, which voted 58 per cent to stay in the EU, feel the issue is being dealt with only as an afterthought.....

Mrs May therefore faces a choice between betraying the millions of British voters who saw Leave as a way to regain control of the countries borders, or risk a return to the chaos of the Troubles in a country still scarred by decades of death and division.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/786284/northern-ireland-brexit-irish-border-donald-tusk

Thrugelmir

cepheus wrote: »

This is from an Express journalist, which I quote only due to their tendency to (usually) see Brexit in a highly positive light!

The Irish border is simply one of the pot holes along the road. Next there's Gibraltar. Then there's FOM. Then there's Financial Trade. Then there's Fishing rights. Odds on the intransigence is going to wear the patience of the UK public thin. As the veneer of respectability gets peeled away. With self interest and protectionism shining through. At least on a political level. If these were business people a deal would have been hammered out by now.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There's only an issue because the Irish themselves are making it one. Politics above common sense.

How so? What's the common sense answer? What would you do if Eire?

cogito

Herzlos wrote: »

How so? What's the common sense answer? What would you do if Eire?

Leave the EU and join a customs union and single market with the UK.