Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

wunferall

Not a good day for remainers determined to bleat their tales of imaginary post-Brexit woe considering today's ONS report.

The UK has seen the strongest two quarters of productivity growth since the recession of 2008, according to the latest data.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43140646

UK borrowing at lowest level since financial crisis

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43139077
£7.2 billion down on last year!


Wages are rising and employment numbers are up too. (Unemployment rises by 0.1% but is explained as being because of " a number of people who were previously economically inactive have started working or looking for work. " which is surely also good news.)

Filo25

Herzlos wrote: »

You're right it makes no difference to the negotiations for Brexit, but it have a lot of relevance to the division caused.

Will Leavers and Remainers ever see eye to eye, or are we going to see generations of a country torn in half?

If we'll never understand each other, are we best just calling it a day and agreeing to disagree?


Can any Leaver explain what they think Brexit will actually improve, with some details?


Will any of the 6 Brexit clarifying speeches clarify anything?

I called it a day on here a while ago

Arklight

Lornapink wrote: »

I find the complete opposite to be the case when I debate Remainers face to face. I get all sorts of fear based ignorant claims made such as 'farmers will poison the land if we leave' to wit I reply 'so tell me, how will their land values be impacted if they render their chief asset toxic' - and as you describe I see the cognitive dissonance kick-in.


In the main Remainers view boils down to profound ignorance which is almost impossible to overcome.

I bet those long bus rides fly by.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

I find the complete opposite to be the case when I debate Remainers face to face. I get all sorts of fear based ignorant claims made such as 'farmers will poison the land if we leave' to wit I reply 'so tell me, how will their land values be impacted if they render their chief asset toxic' - and as you describe I see the cognitive dissonance kick-in.


In the main Remainers view boils down to profound ignorance which is almost impossible to overcome.

I can't say I've ever heard a 'farmers poisoning land' argument.

If you feel that Remainers are suffering profound ignorance, why are the Leavers incapabable of answering the bulk of the questions asked? You know, helping us with our ignorance?

I suspect this is the problem; the mindset of both sides is so profound that no-one can fathom why the other side just doesn't get it.

tracey3596

ilovehouses wrote: »

I'm aware of the definition. I was torn between hypocrisy and irony and was trying to be nice..



Davis and Johnson the Ronaldo and Messi of Brexit - that is pretty funny.

Try it for what though? What's your point?

I was right it seems.
Irony.

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

If not irony then it must conversely be that you do think that Davis and Johnson are performing their Brexit tasks well?
Never mind though, you at least got the "wryly amusing" since you admit to it being "pretty funny".

Lornapink

ilovehouses wrote: »

Given we've not left the EU, no rules have changed and there's not much in the way of detail as to what the future relationships with the EU and countries beyond I can't see the relevance to brexit.

So stand by 15 year fairy tale forecasts but discount the evidence right in front of us that business clearly has confidence in the future.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

I suspect this is the problem; the mindset of both sides is so profound that no-one can fathom why the other side just doesn't get it.

You are correct. The most influential thinker on the planet, Professor Jordan Peterson (clinical psychologist, ex-Harvard) says we are all dumb and virtually incapable of understanding opponents. He and other's say educational attainment has no bearing whatsoever on ones ability to compute arguments counter to your position.

I had an experience of this today. Driving along a fast road, a lorry broken down on the other side - oncoming traffic trying to get round into my lane making me wait - no way - this 'my lane' you need to wait pall.

Absent mindedly forgot I was to be coming back in the opposite direction 10 mins later.
Now I'm the one trying to push around the lorry into the oncoming traffic lane - oh yeah, my right, I have rights too, I need to get somewhere, be patient you silly-billy, and I'm surely in my rights to make you oncommer's wait now, what's the rush.
I adjusted reality to suit my objective.

It struck me how I altered my entire dynamic take on matters depending on my direction of travel.
I used to be a screaming lefty as a teen and can recall how impervious my mind was to counter-views. Now I'm on the right I cant possibly fathom lefty logic.

Moby

Lornapink wrote: »

What a profoundly snobbish and ignorant take on reality you have.
Pity those poor citizens of independent nations all living in ignorance, without satisfactory regulations eh, highly disadvantaged by their not being members of the EU. One wonders how Canadians dare show their faces, fancy merely belonging to trading alliances rather than federal blocs.

Lorna....Canada isn't in Europe.

Lornapink

He guys, this is hands down the best most enlightening debate between left and right I've ever seen. Russell Brand interviews Jordan Peterson (last week).

Peterson explains that the reason this discussion went so well in spite of polar opposite political leanings, is to do with the objective of each side (Brand and Peterson) in honestly seeking truth through debate rather than to seek to dominate and point-score as is so typical with TV interviews.

A seriously rare spectacle everyone needs to watch;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL61yQgdWeM

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

Given we've not left the EU, no rules have changed and there's not much in the way of detail as to what the future relationships with the EU and countries beyond I can't see the relevance to brexit.

I don't think a world emerging from the GFC is something that constitutes a bad day for anyone but it's nothing to do with brexit.

Really?
Nothing to do with Brexit? This from a remainer insistent that we pay heed to government forecasts?

Leaving the European Union would tip the UK into a year-long recession, with up to 820,000 jobs lost within two years, Chancellor George Osborne says.
...he said a Leave vote would cause an "immediate and profound" economic shock, with growth between 3% and 6% lower.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564

George Osborne says he will have to slash public spending and increase taxes in an emergency Budget to tackle a £30bn "black hole" if the UK votes to leave the European Union.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534192

So which one of these does your post equate to?

ilovehouses wrote: »

I was torn between hypocrisy and irony and was trying to be nice..

None of them seem to fit.
"Wrong" though, that seem to fit your post.