Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

vivatifosi

Question asked my Tulip Sadiq about effect of delaying medical isotopes arriving in UK. May says she wants free trade and radio isotopes will not be impacted by withdrawal from EURATOM as they are not covered by the particular rules.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

Current topic? It's been underlying the entirety of the Brexit negotiations.

Doesn't sound if you ever been involved in negotiating. If the parties concerned don't come to agreement then they walk away. That's a fact. Nothing more complex or sinister than that. Working on the worst way assumption then results in no surprises.

Lornapink

phillw wrote: »

I had an interesting conversation with a staunch leave voter the other day when they asked me advice on mobile phone tariffs after returning from a trip to Portugal.

The conversation started with "I want to change my mobile tariff. The most important thing is that no matter where I am in the world, I don't want to get ripped off".

I pointed out that anywhere in the EU is at least as cheap as when you're at home & that will last until brexit. At which point they flipped and said it wasn't a problem, they only said "no matter where they were in the world" meant when they were in Britain, because that is where they are now.

You could almost hear the cognitive dissonance.

This is pretty indicative of every leave voter I have ever met. They like the £350 million a week for the NHS and the end to those stupid lazy scrounging benefits claimants from the EU coming here with their degrees and taking our jobs and pushing up our property prices, anything bad that comes with it is not a problem, not a problem, not a problem.......

I've not met them all, so there might be a few decent leavers who are now sandwiched between the 48% remoaners and 50% of the loonly leavers. That certainly isn't going to be a nice place to be, maybe should have thought a bit earlier about who they were getting in bed with.

I find the complete opposite to be the case when I debate Remainers face to face. I get all sorts of fear based ignorant claims made such as 'farmers will poison the land if we leave' to wit I reply 'so tell me, how will their land values be impacted if they render their chief asset toxic' - and as you describe I see the cognitive dissonance kick-in.


In the main Remainers view boils down to profound ignorance which is almost impossible to overcome.

Lornapink

vivatifosi wrote: »

Question asked my Tulip Sadiq about effect of delaying medical isotopes arriving in UK. May says she wants free trade and radio isotopes will not be impacted by withdrawal from EURATOM as they are not covered by the particular rules.

Leavers pointed out long ago that independent nations such as Australia manage their health affairs perfectly well. Once again, we're back to common sense and that the world wont end once the elderly Gentlemen of Brussels aren't overseeing us.

Guess what, and I know this will come as a surprise to some, Japan, Australia and the rest..............................................get their fruit picked........................No WAYYYYYYYYYYY..................... YOU SEE THEY OFFER FURIT PICKERS visa's just as we did pre-Blair. Awesome eh.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

I had an interesting conversation ........................

What is the possibility of a similarly interesting conversation consisting of you answering my three questions?
The ones you still have not answered from yesterday.

wunferall wrote: »

You have been asked for evidence of who globally outside the EU views the UK as obstinate.
You have been asked for evidence of who globally outside the EU thinks the UK is stupid because of Brexit.
You haven't answered.

And the last: why should the UK owe the EU anything after exiting the EU if no agreement is reached?

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

Who on earth is this Gareth Hayes; why should his opinions be more worthy than anybody elses; and why resort to Tweets? Are you running out of things to post?

I don't know or care who he is. What do you feel about the words in the article?

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

Judging by the volume of posts from remainers (soon to be returners) it seems more like Brexit via a thousand quibbles.
I'm still waiting for the evidence I asked you for; you posted your opinion but you cannot provide any evidence to support it?
That is called conjecture or speculation.
In other words, it is not true.

That's a hugely naive view of negotiations and assumes that both parties are in the same position and able to walk away. For the avoidance of doubt: We absolutely can't just walk away. We know it and they know it, thus any threats to just walk away are seen as the bluster they are.

Like if I go to a shop in a busy town centre to buy a bottle of water. It costs too much so I go elsewhere.
Or I go to the only shop on an island to buy a bottle of water. It costs too much, so do I go without or do I moan and take it?

Herzlos

Guh_Guh_Gok wrote: »

I was just looking at that and now I can see where you might be going wrong. It's a Twitter feed, not an article. A rambling of opinion. I might as well read Viz and ask the same.

Ok. Forget the twitter feed and debate the point.

The gulf between Leavers and Remainers is huge and insurpassable. It seems the main reason for that is that Leavers want less rules and don't want to care about the details, whilst the Remainers don't care about the number of rules but care about the details.
It's at that point the conversations break down as the Leavers can usually never pinpoint a single example of a rule that gets in their way.

To date the only one I've heard that makes sense, is regarding deactivated weapons, where the EU standard is higher and that will incur a bit of cost to any UK holder of a deactivated weapon who wants to sell it.

And lets face it, that's an awful reason to damage the economy. It'd be better for everyone to just do the certifications for free.

Herzlos

You're right it makes no difference to the negotiations for Brexit, but it have a lot of relevance to the division caused.

Will Leavers and Remainers ever see eye to eye, or are we going to see generations of a country torn in half?

If we'll never understand each other, are we best just calling it a day and agreeing to disagree?


Can any Leaver explain what they think Brexit will actually improve, with some details?


Will any of the 6 Brexit clarifying speeches clarify anything?

Herzlos

Guh_Guh_Gok wrote: »

It looks like you are taking a hugely naive view because the EU is not the only shop on an island.

Without trying to waste time arguing if the example is valid; do you agree with the point?

Plus, in a huge number of cases, the EU is the only shop on the island.
We have far too much to loose to leave without an agreement. It should go without saying.

We may decide to go WTO, but we'll still need to agree on all of the periphery things, like aviation standards.