Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

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But whilst we can make decisions faster, we're more likely to be the weaker party and a lower priority to other nations, which is why we're making such a big deal of being treated as if we're still in the EU when we leave - if it was so easy to make agreements we wouldn't need to ask other countries to copy the EU terms for us.

So citizens in prospering independent nations experience some kind of relevance deficit do they?
Point me to the evidence on this. You wont, there is no evidence you're simply repeating the dopey lines fed Remainers by Clegg and Umoona.

I note Mifid2 and other EU regulations coming in are damaging UK financial services, even the equity release sector. Once free we will be far more efficient.


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Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

You want them to give us a super duper deal because we buy stuff from them because of our economy. It's notionally the same thing.
Except we're usually a smallish percentage of their sales, being a market about 10% the size of the EU.

No it's not about THEM giving us a great deal, it's about them and us understanding that is we opt to deliver a harmful trade deal, we all suffer.
For one thing we would take the £40bn off the table.

Regards the 10% of sales the UK represents, this is utterly irrelevant if a mass of Danish pork and Italian food n drink producers suddenly find their sales to the UK in free fall. In the end THIS is what will ensure national Gov'ts deliver a great trade deal.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

Our "market" share according to the EU is 16% while we are a member and our GDP counts too

You must be able to admit that 16% is a pretty small number?

You're forgetting too that the EU sells us about £80 billion more per year than we sell to them.
They should IMHO pay us for access to our markets.

That's just not how it works.

Lornapink wrote: »

No it's not about THEM giving us a great deal, it's about them and us understanding that is we opt to deliver a harmful trade deal, we all suffer.

We all know that. I don't know why it keeps coming up.

For one thing we would take the £40bn off the table.

But we won't if we want to retain any credibility on the world stage.

Regards the 10% of sales the UK represents, this is utterly irrelevant if a mass of Danish pork and Italian food n drink producers suddenly find their sales to the UK in free fall. In the end THIS is what will ensure national Gov'ts deliver a great trade deal.

A bad brexit will destroy some EU industries and probably a few towns. That's also never been in dispute.

Enough of them to have the EU violate it's own red lines and essentially decompose the EU?

Lornapink wrote: »

The far right is surging across the EU, but hey, remain in the dark if you please, no skin off my little nose.

But it's not; there's lots of populist movements that fall apart when they gain enough momentum to have to do anything.
In any case, we're leaving so why do we care?

wunferall

We will find out soon enough won't we Herzlos?
But look, we are making an effort.
Let's see if [STRIKE]Barmier[/STRIKE] Barnier will do the same.

Brexit minister David Davis said on Tuesday Britain and the European Union could reach a deal to access each others’ markets and promised his government would not use Brexit to cut regulation, despite past threats to do so.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-davis/britain-urges-eu-to-work-jointly-on-brexit-deal-wont-undercut-rivals-idUKKCN1G327A

Lornapink wrote: »

No one said 'they should prop us up'. You inserted that sentence to mischaracterise what I said.

Get used to that if you post in this thread - and much worse too.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

But we won't if we want to retain any credibility on the world stage.

Not this old chestnut, lol.

Tell me, who has this world stage credibility which you claim we will somehow lose if we play hard in an EU negotiation?

Australia - she that process's refugee's on a desert island?
Japan that allows very little immigration and give's out citizenship and benefits only after great commitment demonstrated?
Germany - where even ordinary conservatives used far more pungent anti immigrant language than seen at the UK GE, that cant form a Gov't, where far-right won dozens of seats?
Canada that gives proportionally less than a third of what we do in foreign aid?
Spain who's police dragged peaceful women and disabled voters on the ground by their hair & allows horses to be blinded and deafened prior to bullfights?

Nobody cares what these nations think of us if we play hard, it's all in your mind.

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

It was rhetorical. The sources were 'officials' and 'people familiar' - therefore the article didn't support the conclusion the poster made that the government were supportive of his views.
Was it heck as like "rhetorical", it looks like you were trying to provoke that poster. See below as further evidence of what your true intent looks like being..

I'd prefer he used less smilies so trying to work out what he means doesn't become the topic of debate. How many folk do you know called "Tracey" that are male? You're again doing no more than trying to provoke disagreement, it would appear.

Walking away without a negotiated exit and trade arrangement would be damaging for the UK and EU - that's not a trump card. A better analogy would be bluffing.

Rubbish!
If the EU want however many billions the final cost will be and we can legitimately refuse that bill then it is indeed a trump card. It's only a bluff if you don't intend using it. We as a country are doing our "bit" to avoid using such actions and now the EU must show that it too can compromise.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

Nobody cares what these nations think of us if we play hard, it's all in your mind.

Nobody cares if we play hard ball, that's to be expected.

Everyone will be very wary if we agree to something (like settle our debts) and renege on it. If we do it to the EU why won't we do it to them?

Or are you still trying to claim the £40m is a fictional leaving fee?

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

Nobody cares if we play hard ball, that's to be expected.

Everyone will be very wary if we agree to something (like settle our debts) and renege on it. If we do it to the EU why won't we do it to them?

Or are you still trying to claim the £40m is a fictional leaving fee?

No, nobody will care.
Who else are we in a union with that we could do the same to? Nobody, so again nobody will care, no matter how much you wish otherwise.
Just as nobody cared that Primark sold clothes made using slave labour some years ago or how much information Google gathers about each and every one of us, neither will the world care if the EU throws a strop.
Especially if it's one of their own making.

Your last sentence has no bearing on what was posted whatsoever.

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

I asked a question to which I knew the answer. That's generally considered a rhetorical question. Yes, I was trying to provoke the poster - hopefully into considering that maybe quotes attributed to unnamed people aren't evidence of government policy.



Not much of a trump card because the EU hold the same one. There's nothing to stop them throwing their toys out of the pram and damaging the economies of the EU and UK in the process.

No they don't, because the sum allegedly involved will go quite some way towards easing any damage to the UK.
Tell us what money will the EU have to replace their losses?

wunferall

ilovehouses wrote: »

This is a tired rehashing of the 'well it'll be worse for them' argument.

I wouldn't find it much of a consolation to find £1 just as I'd lost £10. I'd find it even less of a consolation to find out someone else lost £12. Therefore I don't think a trump card which when played means both sides lose is much of a trump card.

Now that Davis is more of an arms length negotiator I don't think either party would be stupid enough to play such a card anyway. Who wins when both sides lose?

In other words the EU have nothing and the rest is verbosity.

Hopefully neither side would be stupid enough but TBH so far the signs from the EU don't exactly look encouraging in that regard, do they?
Or do you now disregard completely the old "no deal is better than a bad deal"?