Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

gfplux

Matt_L wrote: »

Even if i was to accept your list above, (which i don't) then you must agree that all of this can easily be avoided by the other 27 countries accepting a mutually beneficial agreement post brexit with the UK.

Yes, i keep hearing we can't cherry pick or take all the best best bits but im really confused by this and maybe it can be better explained to me.. What are the good parts that we are being accused of cherry picking? What are the less desirable parts that we don't want? I ask because its my understanding that FOM and the ECJ for example are the very good parts that the EU are extremely proud of..

I am not really asking you or anybody to except the list. This is just a list of areas that will be effected in a negative way that have been suggested by posters on this thread.

As a I understand cherry picking.
There are four freedoms that are the cornerstone of the EU. Just like a tennis club having a tennis court. Cherry picking is Britain wanting to adopt some of the four freedoms without paying a membership fee. Just like not paying to be a member of a tennis club but wanting to play free on their court.
I think you are right, the EU is very proud of its freedoms and the ECJ. Actually Theresa May has said she will not except the ECJ having any role in Britains relationship with the EU after Brexit.

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

What trump cards do we have?

How good would our MI5 and MI6 be without EU intelligence?

Read through the thread if you are genuinely interested in what trump cards the UK has. Don't expect others to do it for you.

How good would EU intelligence be without input from UK intelligence services?
Anyway, you're late to that party because Theresa May discussed this in her speech in Munich just a few days ago. Did you miss it?

gfplux

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

Reference Dover and Calais, this can be solved by having the eu actually do something about it. Tighten the borders around the schengen area (bad idea if ever I heard one, people were always going to take advantage of it, especially as it doesn't just apply to Schengen residents).

The eu are the ones that allowed the people in, they should not expect us to take in people we simply do not have room for.

As for the boat people, yes, continue picking them up, but take them back to Turkey rather than taking them to Italy or Greece, and publicise that that is what will happen in future. Instead of an eu army create an eu coastguard, patrol the waters, take seaworthy boats into tow and take them back to Turkey. There is a refugee camp there, they are away from the war and the UK is helping within the camp. The vast majority seem to be fit and able young men so they can help their people rather than run away, that is assuming they are refugees rather than the economic migrants that seem to be jumping on the bandwagon. Do this for long enough and it will stop.

And if Merkel is so desperate for a massive population increase she can have them, all of them, don't expect other countries to join in though. If you invite people to a party you do not expect your next door neighbours to take the overflow.

We certainly agree about strengthening the borders around the Schengen area and the EU-ESTA the ETIAS that will be introduced in 2020 will go some way to do that.

Lornapink

wunferall wrote: »

Which remainers kept insisting that popularism was in decline in the EU or that the far right were in decline?
Well not in Germany they're not.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-politics-poll/germanys-far-right-afd-overtakes-centre-left-spd-in-latest-poll-idUKKCN1G31M3?il=0
Yes, Merkel's party gained a little too but I'll lay odds on that being more to do with relief at the prospect of a coalition. Talking of which I'm sure this'll sway a few of the SPD coalition voters - and I don't mean in favour of the coalition.

Remainers ignore this ^ at your peril.

The right is enjoying a tsunami rise across Europe thanks to the democratic deficit.
Overturn Brexit & this will happen in the UK, and the cacophony calls for a referendum on English independence will rapidly deliver such a referendum, as the Tory party would be decimated if it did not accede to such demands.
If you think we have a divided Britain now, you aint seen nothing yet chaps.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

Additionally, if the UK as a result of bad deal suffers economically this harms all of the above as we will buy less.

Yup, lots of Europe will suffer from an economically weaker UK. Doesn't mean they should prop it up.

It's been obvious from the beginning that a very good trade deal will be delivered.

Good for who?

Lornapink

gfplux wrote: »

I am not really asking you or anybody to except the list. This is just a list of areas that will be effected in a negative way that have been suggested by posters on this thread.

As a I understand cherry picking.
There are four freedoms that are the cornerstone of the EU. Just like a tennis club having a tennis court. Cherry picking is Britain wanting to adopt some of the four freedoms without paying a membership fee. Just like not paying to be a member of a tennis club but wanting to play free on their court.
I think you are right, the EU is very proud of its freedoms and the ECJ. Actually Theresa May has said she will not except the ECJ having any role in Britains relationship with the EU after Brexit.

The entire cherry picking narrative is a complete irrelevance.
The deal delivered will ensure the nations that contribute most to EU coffers, are not harmed by having their massive UK trade disrupted. EU Mandarins are mere puppets. Gov't accountable to their voters have no choice but to ensure their significant UK sales are not harmed.

gfplux

Lornapink wrote: »

The following all export significantly to the UK & thus if the EU chooses to slow that trade these nations will suffer in terms of jobs, tax receipts and being able to fund the EU;

Spain
Italy
Holland
Belgium
Ireland
Germany
Sweden

Additionally, if the UK as a result of bad deal suffers economically this harms all of the above as we will buy less.

It would also harm the likes of Portugal as we'd have less to spend on holidays and propping up touristic real estate markets.

It's been obvious from the beginning that a very good trade deal will be delivered.

The list is about areas and large groups not Country’s. If you could be a bit more specific I would be very happy to add to my list.

wunferall

gfplux wrote: »

I am not really asking you or anybody to except the list. This is just a list of areas that will be effected in a negative way that have been suggested by posters on this thread.

As a I understand cherry picking.
There are four freedoms that are the cornerstone of the EU. Just like a tennis club having a tennis court. Cherry picking is Britain wanting to adopt some of the four freedoms without paying a membership fee. Just like not paying to be a member of a tennis club but wanting to play free on their court.
I think you are right, the EU is very proud of its freedoms and the ECJ. Actually Theresa May has said she will not except the ECJ having any role in Britains relationship with the EU after Brexit.

No.
It's a list that might suffer if the EU carry on playing silly beggars and force the UK's hand.
Cherry-picking was clearly discussed in a post earlier today by cogito, or did you miss it?
Brexit is not, BTW, like any club be it tennis or otherwise. It's not like a marriage going through divorce either.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

Yup, lots of Europe will suffer from an economically weaker UK. Doesn't mean they should prop it up.


Good for who?

No one said 'they should prop us up'. You inserted that sentence to mischaracterise what I said.

I said, the main exporter nations to us have far to much to lose from disrupting their huge UK sales.
M15/6 are orders of magnitude more important than anything the EU has. Access to this has a cost...

gfplux

I am adding these to my list.

British Haulage industry
Any British manufacturing using EU components
Any British company with EU customers
Anyone who eats food
Germanys car Industry
Dutch flower growers
Rotterdam Port
Dover already damaged by large numbers of non EU immigrants landing and not moving on. Will be further damaged after Brexit.
Calais already damaged due to large number of non EU immigrants congregating in attempting to gain entry to the UK. Will be further damaged after Brexit
French wine makers
Holyhead Port
People/businesses close to the N Ireland/ROI Border
ROI
Japanese car makers in Britain
British Farmers during the withdrawal of £3 billion a year subsidies.
London Financial business.