Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

ukcarper

Theophile wrote: »

You're right. It wasn't mentioned on the ballot paper. End of story.

So what do you think they were voting for ?

gfplux

More from Politico about issues with the Home Office and border control.
Another small but significant issue but also undermining the UK transition negotiating position, no free movement after April 1st 2019.

Quote
ImmigrationWatch: Home Office officials fear they do not have time to set up a new immigration system for EU nationals arriving after Brexit day in March 2019, Oliver Wright reports in today!!!8217;s Times splash. He says senior officials have been arguing for the U.K. to agree to Brussels!!!8217; demands for full freedom of movement rights to continue throughout the 20-month transition period, partly because they will not be ready to start registering people arriving next year. In the Guardian, Brexit correspondent Lisa O!!!8217;Carroll reports a British farm is already moving 20 percent of its workload to China over fears it will not be able to recruit enough fruit-picking staff after Brexit.
End Quote

System

ukcarper wrote: »

So what do you think they were voting for ?

A huge number of people voting in the referendum wouldn't have even heard of the 4 freedoms.

I'd be amazed if 10% of people who voted could name all 4 even now.

tracey3596

Thrugelmir wrote: »

You are hopelessly out of touch. UK companies have been investing in China for the past 20 years. Why the sudden concern now. Particularly when it's only 200 seasonal workers.

Putting matters in perspective. Some of China's industrial parks are larger than the size of Luxembourg as a country.

Take your blinkers off and look at the much bigger global picture. Power will ultimately shift East.

UK companies have been trading with and investing in communist China since the 50's with the Group of 48 - but don't expect dissenters to accept facts on this thread.
In fact, us British have been trading with China and the far east since the 17th Century. Look for example at Thomas Glover, a Scottish entrepreneur and businessman who aided and advised Mitsubishi in Japan during the mid to late 19th century.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

The damage that Brexit is doing to Britain will not normally be found on the front pages but rather in the few lines on page 5. All these small insignificant things will all add up and will only be properly examined as a business school analysis of how a powerful country can make disastrous miss steps.

The change in the Remoaner narrative from immediate Brexit disaster to where it’s somehow now a death from thousand cuts and the drip, drip, drip of bad news is noted.
Conjecture is now routinely dressed as fact and evidence, it’s almost laughable.

System

tracey3596 wrote: »

Irrelevant.:T

There is literally a conversation in progress about voting and the 4 freedoms.

System

ukcarper wrote: »

They might not have heard the term 4 freedoms, but they would have voted leave because of at least one of them.

well, yeah, freedom of movement most likely. The others weren't mentioned by either campaign.

If you want the answer to what were people voting for, go and look at the remain/leave campaigns again. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=leave+campaign+poster&rls=com.microsoft:en-GB:IE-Address&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjSg4Grh6DZAhXS-6QKHb1mA9AQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=653

tracey3596

The poor, powerless inconsequential UK has economists that want to show the EU that we hold more aces than the dissenters here imagine.
"Scrap tariffs to pile pressure on EU for best Brexit deal, ministers told"

Abolishing tariffs would drive down prices for consumers and stimulate competition by allowing cheap imports such as food and clothing to flood the British market, according to researchers at Policy Exchange.
The threat of the UK abolishing tariffs as part of its 'no deal' backup plan would also encourage Brussels to offer a more favourable trade agreement, the economists said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/02/12/scrap-tariffs-pile-pressure-eu-best-brexit-deal-ministers-told/


Paywalled but you get the idea.

Theophile

ukcarper wrote: »

So what do you think they were voting for ?

Doesn't really matter what I think they were voting for, nor what you think they were voting for.
The ballot paper was clear:

Herzlos

tracey3596 wrote: »

Irrelevant.
It was made perfectly clear before the referendum by both the UK and the EU that leaving the EU would mean leaving the common market.

Are you sure? I can quote lots of prominent Brexiteers, including Johnson and Farage saying the opposite:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/open-britain-video-single-market-nigel-farage-anna-soubry_uk_582ce0a0e4b09025ba310fce

Rinoa wrote: »

The UK is happy with no border. It's your beloved EU who will insist on one.

But that won't stop you blaming the UK for its imposition.

The EU doesn't want a border. The UK wants to introduce conditions that require a border, and the EU has pointed that out. How do you propose we leave the customs union and not need a border? Can you identify anywhere in the world with a customs boundary but no physical border?
The only way we can have a borderless Ireland is if we're in the customs union, or "regulatory alignment" if you don't like the words "customs union".

Leaving the EU and keeping an open border is like asking your neighbour to stop their dogs running onto your side of the lawn, but refusing to let anyone put up a fence. It just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

wunferall wrote: »

If you persist in a blinkered view of course it is.
Think outside the box.

Without using meaningless buzzwords, what benefits do you see us taking advantage of that are outside of the box?
Lots of people smarter than you or I have been trying to figure this out for 18 months now, and the best we've come up with is asking everyone to treat us like we're still in the EU.

If there was any major success story to be had for the post Brexit ecnonomy, why hasn't it come to light yet, despite the questions being asked constantly for 2 years?

We could through huge investment into technology, automation, energy and become a world leader in something that is unique to us. But what would that be?