Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Private_Church

phillw wrote: »

That is true for british citizens, I was under the impression that EU citizens weren't entitled to benefits when they first arrive and EU law allows them to be invited to return home. For immigrants outside of the EU, we pay them benefits because we don't let them work.

We can't deport Brits unless they have duel nationality and the ones most of us would like to get rid off don't. ........

Before the rules changed EU migrants could and did rock up at councils stright off the ferry in Dover,Folkestone etc and fill out housing benefit forms and were granted HB. If an EU migrant contacted HMRC and applied for a UTR number and NI number they qualified for benefits from day 1.

Even today , after the changes the UK govt made any EU citizen who comes here and goes self employed (UTR ,NI number) do not have to qualify for benefits with the 3 month work rule. Self employment is still a shortcut to UK benefits for EU citizens. Why else do we see so many EU "Big Issue" sellers etc.. Even after all of that people should not be entitled to benefits after only working for 12 weeks ,many of whom won't even earn enough to pay any tax, Its simply unsustainable.

A good friend of mine worked for Shepway Council Housing office and regularly had EU families turning up for their "entitlements".

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-and-the-habitual-residence-test/eea-nationals-claiming-benefits-while-in-work-or-self-employed/

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

Hello Tromking
Happy new year.
I have a little knowledge of the French and FRANCE.
If you think for one minute that France would (Now) care about upsetting the Brits you don’t know FRANCE.

I will not go as far as saying FRANCE has tolerated Britain because it was a fellow member of the EU but now Britain is leaving (and the way it is leaving) do not expect any favours from FRANCE.

As an aside.
Macron during his New Years address had the French and EU flags side by side at his shoulder.
Whenever did you see a British PM do that other than when at an EU meeting. Frankly that sent out a very strong message by this young and dynamic president.

Happy new year gfplux.
You misunderstand.
I perhaps didn’t write clearly enough (my fault) I was suggesting that by upsetting the UK, France would by default cause problems for itself too. Perhaps more than any other EU country, France is slave to the vested interests of its Unions and food producers. You are right to say that France would not baulk at upsetting the Brits, especially now we are leaving the EU, which is why I conceded the point when I said if France wanted to it would’ve ended the border arrangements already.
Ask yourself the question, why they haven’t.

tracey3596

gfplux, I bid you a good morning and a Happy New Year.

Regarding your lengthy post with the addition of red highlighting however you really are forgetting, I do hope not purposely, the EU's own rules and laws. These very clearly state in the so-called Dublin regulation that third-country visitors (which covers migrants and refugees) must register in the first European country they enter.
This is why in Greece and Italy for just a few examples, such migrants/refugees are still incarcerated in migrant camps two years after the "crisis" began.

Now we are all aware of the EU's proclivity to ignore their own rules when it suits them to do so but you cannot possibly deny that - other than flying, a very long boat trip or an impossibly long swim - there is realistically no way that migrants can get to the UK other than over land. As all the land before reaching the UK from either Africa or the middle east is part of the EU, it is therefore an EU problem and not a UK one. Pure and simple.

So regardless of France's own (somewhat ungrateful considering history IMHO) feelings towards the UK they must stick to the law. Hence the clearing of migrants as posted before.
Across the EU, Amnesty and even the The European Network Against Racism (ENAR) amongst others describe EU attitudes towards migrants as "appalling". Not looking good for the EU, is it?

Given your alleged knowledge of France, I find it interesting too that you do not acknowledge the far worse divisions in France including politically than in the UK which you say you love.
Macron and his policies are not liked by many French, who have (as is their usual style) protested loudly, have they not?
Politically the divisions have allowed a far right extremist party the Front National holding eight seats in the French parliament. Despite FN losses in the elections, many see Macron's policies persuading greater support for the FN now and in the future as is happening across mainland Europe.

If I were you I would be much more concerned about such fanaticism close to home than how the EU handles migrants.

vivatifosi

phillw wrote: »

"UNHCR also reminds Member States that they must take into consideration the
applicant’s right to family unity and consider the applicant’s family links in the
destination country. In UNHCR’s view, a person’s fundamental right to family unity is an
overwhelming consideration that countries of asylum should consider"

It's not just those damn EU foreigners forcing us to take immigrants, it's the UN foreigners we have to spit venom at now too.

If they are refugees as opposed to illegal immigrants and have close family here, of course they should come.

vivatifosi

gfplux wrote: »

enterprise, perhaps you need to shop at Waitrose. I understand they get a better quality of immigrant there.

:rotfl:Overheard in Waitrose is always in English.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/floperry/of-the-most-middle-class-things-overheard-at-waitrose?utm_term=.pt69L3EEv#.dm9w0Addj

buglawton

BobQ wrote: »

When we leave the EU will English cease to be an official EU language?

Depends which language Southern Ireland chooses to work in after we leave.

kabayiri

vivatifosi wrote: »

If they are refugees as opposed to illegal immigrants and have close family here, of course they should come.

The solution to a more stable world is not to encourage a million plus people to trek across an entire continent.

I honestly thought the Germans were better than that.

For a start, you hack off all the countries these people have to trek through. Nobody considered an efficient method of transfer for these people direct to Germany.

Second, when you have such large numbers you simply can not authenticate all those who do come. If I was an ISIS rebel with malevolent intent towards the West, I would rub my hands with glee at such an opportunity.

Third, even Germany has struggled to accommodate these numbers, and you can not guarantee a good life for all those who arrive. After a few years some will resent their new alien surroundings, and wonder where their new job / new car / new home dream went. Disillusionment turns into resentment turns into rebellion.

I do think we should have helped out groups like the Coptic Christians in Egypt, who face peril every single day. Christianity is slowly being eradicated in parts of the Middle East, and I imagined one predominantly Christian country would help out others.

kabayiri

EU migrants who come here are economic migrants we are told.

So...why wouldn't we go and source migrants from cheaper locations elsewhere in the world? You get longer working hours out of Indian workers. More Indian workers speak English than the entire Eastern European group. If you choose to drop minimum wage costs, we can get them cheaper.

If we accept globalization for our laptop; phone; car; furniture; <endless list here>; then why don't we accept globalization for labour?

I know why. The EU is in essence a protectionist club. That's why it is losing out on world trade every single year. Without Germany it would be second rate.

gfplux

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

What bothers me is they do not bother to learn English, they cannot communicate with anyone that does not speak the language, as is evident when they reach the till and try to argue about something. This means that if they need to use health service or any other service, leaflets etc have to be translated and printed in their language, and the doctors have to use interpreters. This is all extra expense borne by the British tax payer that could be negated if they simply learned English. These services should be chargeable throughout the country (I seem to recall a county has started charging but can't recall who). Putting this into perspective, translation and interpretation services cost the NHS 100 million pounds in the last 5 years, I dread to think what it costs for the rest of the public services.

What I don’t understand is why you and others that have your mind set have voted for a Government that provides translation services on the NHS.
Have you discussed this with your local MP or local councillor? When you were last voting in the General election in June 2017 or May 2015 did you ask any of the candidates if they supported this practice.
I suspect you didn’t. If you didn’t (ask I mean) I am confident you always use your Democratic right to vote at every opportunity, so who did you blame?
Did you blame the EU?
Did you blame the refugee?
Did you blame other people for not voting for a candidate that was against this?
Did you blame other people for voting for a candidate who supported this practice.
Did you actually blame other people for NOT voting?
Do you know that many other country’s DONT provide this service?

Too many people who have not used their hard fought for Democratic vote blame things in their society on the people in power.
If these people don’t vote do they have any right to complain about how the society they live in is run?

gfplux

Rough_Justice wrote: »

I would have said "Quit while you're ahead" but since they never were ..... and still no contribution in four posts now!





Here's a view of France's handling of migrants from the USA.
"Macron gets tough as France struggles to deal with migrants"

https://www.stripes.com/news/europe/macron-gets-tough-as-france-struggles-to-deal-with-migrants-1.504073


Can you imagine the outcry of faux outrage if we did this here in the UK?

I am not sure I can imagine the outrage false or otherwise if Britain actually did something that was in Britains interests.
After six years in charge of the home office by Theresa May the issue of not enough Indian chefs and IT professionals had not been tackled.
Look what Macron decided to do for FRANCE.

You might describe it as a stunt but when did you hear of a stunt like that for Britain?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/11/macron-awards-grants-to-us-scientists-to-move-to-france-in-defiance-of-trump
——
Eighteen climate scientists from the US and elsewhere have hit the jackpot as France’s president, Emmanuel Macron, awarded them millions of euros in grants to relocate to France for the rest of Donald Trump’s presidential term.

The “Make Our Planet Great Again” grants – a nod to Trump’s “Make America Great Again” campaign slogan – are part of Macron’s efforts to counter Trump on the climate change front. Macron announced a contest for the projects in June, hours after Trump declared he would withdraw the US from the Paris climate accord.
——-