Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

Or more morbidly, working age men are more likely to survive the journey.

Well they certainly are if they don't bring any female family members with them, aren't they?

If you want to see refugees fleeing oppression watch TV news etc. of the Rohingya, where the age range is very clearly from babes-in-arms to frail elderly making their way into Bangladesh.

Compare that with who you see scrambling off boats in the Med. or who inhabits migrant camps across the EU. Mainly younger, working-age men.

As for the suggestion that families will follow I find myself asking when? It is now almost three years since this episode started. Where then are all these females and families, waiting to join these younger working-age men that are supposedly preparing the way for them?

No, the majority are economic migrants. Not that I can blame them for wanting to better themselves. The EU's response to them though has been awful and even now, after so long, the truth seems to be that the powers that be in the EU still don't know what to do with them.
Who will help them if the Turks decide to open the floodgates of a few million more if the EU upset the wobbly apple cart?

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

we are very concerned. The memory’s of Fascism are still very much more alive on the mainland of Europe that it is in Britain. Even here in Luxembourg it is still in living memory that young men were shot by firing squad in the Town Centre for refusing to join the German army, that of the population of 2000 Jews in Luxemborg City in 1939 only +/-16 came back from the camps in 1945, that thousands of ordinary Luxembourgers were sent to work camps (not death camps luckily) and many perished from hunger and disease before they came home.

You speak the truth. Juncker's father fought for the Germans and as for his contemptible father-in-law.......

Herzlos

LHW99 wrote: »

So you don't have to be in the EU to apply for and receive grants from EU members? I thought this was one of the reasons University professors gave for voting Remain - that their grants would dry up if they left.

He's offering them grants to move to France. So it's probably not eu money and you'd still ha e to be in the eu to spend it. This doesn't contradict the professors.

kabayiri

wunferall wrote: »

...
No, the majority are economic migrants. Not that I can blame them for wanting to better themselves. The EU's response to them though has been awful and even now, after so long, the truth seems to be that the powers that be in the EU still don't know what to do with them.
Who will help them if the Turks decide to open the floodgates of a few million more if the EU upset the wobbly apple cart?

Economic in the widest sense. To get across you need the help of traffickers, and that costs money.

It's easier to raise the funds for the adult male only, and persuade the German authorities to pick up the tab and bring across the rest of the family.

Trafficking is one of the oldest professions in the world, often aligned to slavery, and liberals are encouraging it.

cogito

kabayiri wrote: »

Economic in the widest sense. To get across you need the help of traffickers, and that costs money.

It's easier to raise the funds for the adult male only, and persuade the German authorities to pick up the tab and bring across the rest of the family.

Trafficking is one of the oldest professions in the world, often aligned to slavery, and liberals are encouraging it.

Or you could just leave Libyan waters, fire a distress signal and MSF will come along and give you a taxi service to Italy.

gfplux

cogito wrote: »

You speak the truth. Juncker's father fought for the Germans and as for his contemptible father-in-law.......

Cogito thank you.
You give me further cause to show that mainland Europe understand any threat better than you.
This from the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10967125/How-Nazi-slurs-and-Tory-euroscepticism-turned-Jean-Claude-Juncker-against-Britain.html

“Born in 1924 to a working class family, Mr Juncker’s father Joseph, a steel worker and a Christian trade unionist, was forcibly conscripted into the German Wehrmacht army during the War.
In 1942 over 10,000 Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the German army, prompting a nationwide general strike that was brutally crushed by the tiny Grand Duchy’s Nazi occupiers.
The wounds are still raw. In 1997, the Luxembourg leader wept in the margins of an EU summit with Ukraine recalling how his father was wounded fighting in Odessa under duress as a forced conscript in a Nazi army that he loathed.
Over 2,800 of the forced conscripts from Luxembourg died.”

10,000 were forced to serve a number at the beginning refused and were shot in the Town Centre.

Frankly I would not have been brave enough to refuse.

Spreading mis truths like that is not worthy of you Cogito and this thread.

Tromking

gfplux wrote: »

Cogito thank you.
You give me further cause to show that mainland Europe understand any threat better than you.
This from the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10967125/How-Nazi-slurs-and-Tory-euroscepticism-turned-Jean-Claude-Juncker-against-Britain.html

“Born in 1924 to a working class family, Mr Juncker’s father Joseph, a steel worker and a Christian trade unionist, was forcibly conscripted into the German Wehrmacht army during the War.
In 1942 over 10,000 Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the German army, prompting a nationwide general strike that was brutally crushed by the tiny Grand Duchy’s Nazi occupiers.
The wounds are still raw. In 1997, the Luxembourg leader wept in the margins of an EU summit with Ukraine recalling how his father was wounded fighting in Odessa under duress as a forced conscript in a Nazi army that he loathed.
Over 2,800 of the forced conscripts from Luxembourg died.”

10,000 were forced to serve a number at the beginning refused and were shot in the Town Centre.

Frankly I would not have been brave enough to refuse.

Spreading mis truths like that is not worthy of you Cogito and this thread.

Thankyou for the link, it’s nice to be reminded of Junckers long standing antipathy toward the country of your birth. Mainland Europeans have indeed suffered within living memory due to Germanic agression and expansionism, but lest we forget the country of your birth’s honourable reaction to that threat at least twice in the last century.
You insult the UK by suggesting that cogito as a UK citizen cannot understand the threat of mainland Europe’s penchant for fascism, I personally was born in a city, Plymouth that was flattened at the behest of people with German sounding names. We in these islands know all to well the dangers.

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

Cogito thank you.
You give me further cause to show that mainland Europe understand any threat better than you.
This from the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10967125/How-Nazi-slurs-and-Tory-euroscepticism-turned-Jean-Claude-Juncker-against-Britain.html

“Born in 1924 to a working class family, Mr Juncker’s father Joseph, a steel worker and a Christian trade unionist, was forcibly conscripted into the German Wehrmacht army during the War.
In 1942 over 10,000 Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the German army, prompting a nationwide general strike that was brutally crushed by the tiny Grand Duchy’s Nazi occupiers.
The wounds are still raw. In 1997, the Luxembourg leader wept in the margins of an EU summit with Ukraine recalling how his father was wounded fighting in Odessa under duress as a forced conscript in a Nazi army that he loathed.
Over 2,800 of the forced conscripts from Luxembourg died.”

10,000 were forced to serve a number at the beginning refused and were shot in the Town Centre.

Frankly I would not have been brave enough to refuse.

Spreading mis truths like that is not worthy of you Cogito and this thread.

Fair comment if true.

Private_Church

cogito wrote: »

Fair comment if true.

Only the die hard SS men joined up willingly, or so we are led to believe. Everyone else was forced to join or be shot.............. "Sie haben mich gezwungen"..

BobQ

phillw wrote: »

I expect long term the EU will find a way to make sure all the immigrants bypass them completely and get directly to the UK, so we will be forced to take them (unless we completely pull up the draw bridge and leave the United Nations, say hello to our new trading partner North Korea). All they need to do is fund direct flights to the UK from places like Syria. The airports will be glad of the business.

International law will apply. If we refuse them entry at Dover we can return them to France. If the EU refuses to accept them the French and UK will need an agreement on how they are returned to a third country that will accept them. Continually shuttling them between us would I am sure breach their human rights.